Is Stephanie Brown a True Robin? 2021 Edition

[The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper]

If the question is whether or not she officially served as Robin IV, then the answer is yes. She was referred to as Robin by Batman himself. Yeah, it was short-lived, never meant to be permanent, and DC disavowed it for years, but it happened as clear as anything else. For the record, Helena actually was considered an official numbered Batgirl (see: the 2004 and 2008 DC encyclopedias). Jarro only appeared as Robin in a dream sequence (correct?) but I unironically wouldn't even mind him being considered an official Robin either. Might as well do something interesting with the mantle.

Then there's the thornier question of whether Duke and the We Are Robin kids officially "counted". They were in that Robin infographic DC put out in 2015-ish, along with Carrie Kelley... and Duke was the Robin in Futures End, too...

We have enough "retroactive"/Year One-type stories with Dick, Jason, Tim, and even Damian; I really wish DC would do a one-shot or miniseries set during Steph's Robin career to flesh out her relationship with Bruce more. But she was totally Robin and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

If anything I would count her more as a Robin 3.5 with the way things stand. Damien is the true Robin 4 in the sense that he is the 4th to have actually stuck with it longer than a week and actually served as Batman's partner/apprentice in an actual meaningful way.

Saying Stephanie is Robin is like going on one bad date that goes nowhere with someone and claiming that they were your ex. Especially when the other person in this analogy only went on that date to make another person jealous and get them back. The date technically happened but that doesn't make it a real relationship.

I don't hate your idea of going back and retroactively doing more with her time as Robin or even having her put the costume back on and having a modern run as Robin. If they did that then I would be more willing to count her.

[millernumber1]

With 40 people having voted so far, almost 1/3 still say she wasn't a "true Robin".

(27 people have voted "Yes" to 13 people voting "No".)

That's significantly better in ratio than the last thread. Obviously the Robin 80th, Robin #5, and the Robins miniseries are having some effect, I would say. But maybe if this gets up over 100 votes, it'll just have the same (disappointing) results.

[MajorHoy]

That's significantly better in ratio than the last thread. Obviously the Robin 80th, Robin #5, and the Robins miniseries are having some effect, I would say. But maybe if this gets up over 100 votes, it'll just have the same (disappointing) results.

But don't forget: the "last thread" / poll (https://community.cbr.com/showthread...n-a-True-Robin) was originally started back in April of 2017.

When I first bumped it back up last month, that poll had

. . . As for the poll, with 115 people having previously voted,

* No, she was not defined by the mantle as were the other Robins = 68 votes
* Yes, her time in the tights makes her as much of a Robin as the rest of the boys! = 47 votes

Currently, that thread's poll is at:

* No, she was not defined by the mantle as were the other Robins = 71 votes (+ 3 since September)
* Yes, her time in the tights makes her as much of a Robin as the rest of the boys! = 65 votes (+ 18 votes since September)

[millernumber1]

But don't forget: the "last thread" / poll (https://community.cbr.com/showthread...n-a-True-Robin) was originally started back in April of 2017.

When I first bumped it back up last month, that poll had
Currently, that thread's poll is at:

* No, she was not defined by the mantle as were the other Robins = 71 votes (+ 3 since September)
* Yes, her time in the tights makes her as much of a Robin as the rest of the boys! = 65 votes (+ 18 votes since September)

True - I think there has been a big uptick. But there's so much of the "old" fandom who liked to argue things like "She should have stayed dead" or even the bizarre "She told Black Mask the true identity of Batman" that I think has been slowly leaving the communities that are reflected in the older polls.

[Restingvoice]

I don't understand this concept of counting Robin by how long they serve. If Stephanie wasn't there, Jason wouldn't be counted either because "he's a bad Robin who disobeys Batman and only lasts 3 years at most."

[millernumber1]

I don't understand this concept of counting Robin by how long they serve. If Stephanie wasn't there, Jason wouldn't be counted either because "he's a bad Robin who disobeys Batman and only lasts 3 years at most."

It's a matter of trying to determine who counts and who doesn't. It's a reasonable measure, but obviously one I reject. All of these measures are, of course, somewhat subjective, and also subject to overturning if DC decides to throw a bunch of time and money into changing the status. I don't think they will, other than them clearly being committed at this stage to Steph being Robin as part of the history of her character (which is a change, as I mentioned, from the 2011-2018 era), but that's more reincorperation.

There are reasons to deny the "Robinhood" (pun intended) of everyone, even Dick, if you are sufficiently motivated. I don't think that's the right approach, though as I've said in this thread, I don't accept Jarro or Duke as Robins, so my own "universalist Robin" position is not without cracks.

[Rac7d*]

If you worked alongside Bruce your a robin

[Badou]

I don't understand this concept of counting Robin by how long they serve. If Stephanie wasn't there, Jason wouldn't be counted either because "he's a bad Robin who disobeys Batman and only lasts 3 years at most."

3 years is a lot different than 3 issues. I don't see how you can compare the two. Then Jason was part of iconic Batman stories as Robin and his death is a defining moment in the history of the identity. Steph doesn't really have any iconic stories as Robin and didn't really redefine the identity in any way. You can erase her few issues as Robin and the identity isn't better or worse since it is so insignificant. Dick, Jason, Tim and Damian all added to the Robin identity and grew and evolved it while a Steph didn't. So to me it just doesn't feel right counting her with the 4 of them when there aren't the stories to support it. Even Steph fans have to admit that her as Batgirl and Spoiler matter substantially more to the character than her as Robin in the character's history.

[Blue22]

If you worked alongside Bruce your a robin

I don't understand this concept of counting Robin by how long they serve. If Stephanie wasn't there, Jason wouldn't be counted either because "he's a bad Robin who disobeys Batman and only lasts 3 years at most."

^This^

If you've worn the costume, taken the name for yourself, and been acknowledged by Bruce as Robin...Then you were a Robin. It is what it is. Regardless of how long she spent in the role, she was Robin. One who Batman recognized and trained as Robin. Was her time as Spoiler and Batgirl more impactful? Yes. Of course. But that doesn't really erase the fact that she was still officially Robin.

If that means we're counting Jarro too then go right ahead.

[The Lucky One]

Argument settled.

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[millernumber1]

Argument settled.

3D47D7B8-1EF0-4194-9D4F-1CC6AFCE0D21.jpg

83A8F43A-D18F-43A3-8675-6F19F03389D7.jpg

One of the best issues of all time.

[Restingvoice]

3 years is a lot different than 3 issues. I don't see how you can compare the two. Then Jason was part of iconic Batman stories as Robin and his death is a defining moment in the history of the identity. Steph doesn't really have any iconic stories as Robin and didn't really redefine the identity in any way. You can erase her few issues as Robin and the identity isn't better or worse since it is so insignificant. Dick, Jason, Tim and Damian all added to the Robin identity and grew and evolved it while a Steph didn't. So to me it just doesn't feel right counting her with the 4 of them when there aren't the stories to support it. Even Steph fans have to admit that her as Batgirl and Spoiler matter substantially more to the character than her as Robin in the character's history.

Oh it's easy. Jason's 3 years is in universe and 5 in publication is just a blip compared to Dick's 10 out of 40, Tim's 4 out of 20, and Damian's 4 out of 20. Then there's the fact that his most memorable story are the origin and death, if they reboot it so that he's only Robin for a day, it will feel the same to me.

(of course in reality, I don't, but that's an example)

About the impact as Robin, I'm ignoring that because Steph's story was designed to kill her off. It's both fridging and assassination by editorial. So rather than impact as Robin, I'm counting her to defy people who doesn't see value in the character that has been Batman and Robin's supporting cast for 10 years, and pretty sure don't want to count her as Robin either, as there was no memorial case for her until it was retconned that the reason was that she's still alive.

[Godlike13]

Even calling her part of Batman's supporting cast is a stretch. She barely has a relationship with Bruce, and her supporting role has mostly been contained to Tim. Also calling Jason's time a blip doesn't make more of a case for Steph's 3 issues.

[Mutant God]

I never thought of her as much of a Robin so I say no

[Ascended]

About the impact as Robin, I'm ignoring that because Steph's story was designed to kill her off. It's both fridging and assassination by editorial.

And this is why I don't "count" her as a Robin. She wore the suit and used the name, but as a prop in Tim's story. DC doesn't get credit for a prop.

When Steph becomes Robin and the story actually belongs to her, I'll happily adjust my opinion. And while I appreciate that DC is now trying to add more dimension to this brief era, all they're doing is trying to put a good PR spin on fridging. They think that by slipping a few solid short stories around the travesty of the original arc (18 years later!) they can get representation points.

There's nothing to respect in this. It's fridging, and DC is trying to make us okay with that. Maybe the argument can be made that DC is trying to rectify a past mistake, and that's a worthy thing. But if DC were really trying to make up for fridging Steph they'd make her Robin again. Until that happens? Her three issue stint as a prop in a Robin suit doesn't make her a Robin in my eyes.