Very true, it is, however, sad Superman sales are in such a long-term slump. Superman should be right up there with Spider-Man & Batman in terms of sale numbers yet he hasn't been in many a year. When you look at the success of Dragon Ball, My Hero Academia (although there are also heavy X-Men elements), The Boys, Invincible, etc. there is certainly a market out there for Superman-type characters yet for whatever reason DC can't seem to tap into that market (and haven't been able to for at least twenty years).
Edit - If I'm perfectly blunt I think Bat God is one of the reasons Superman is in the hole he is in. I can't see characters such as Goku, Deku, Homelander, or Omni Man getting nerfed by someone such as Batman in their universes. If anything those characters would steamroll the Bat arguably nerfing him. Superman loses so often and so badly to Batman it has become a meme.
Last edited by Celgress; 10-19-2021 at 08:07 PM.
"So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."
For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/
Been there. Yes, art comics fans have attacked the reactionary aspect for years and all it got them is a graphic novel readership. Of course comics in general have been under it but the reactionaries have a point if we don't buy them who will. The new kids are more vested in the competition than they are. or to bring it back to Superman who are those new Kids who loved Morrison's Superman? The old guard is still there holding up one end of the tent but who is still coming in?
I have no opinion on this character, since I haven't read any of the new comics--just the ones when he was still a kid.
If they wanted a young Superman, I think the better way to go would have been to dial back the clock on all their big franchise characters and have them all be young and just starting out. It would have more meaning if it was young Clark, young Bruce, young Barry.
The fact that they have inserted Jonathan Kent II into the continuity, without allowing him to have a regular progression in life and rushed to age him up so he could be Superman, makes me think there was some other reason for this. Maybe they are worried about losing copyright. If they lose some rights to Superman, they can't lose rights to Jonathan because he's a relatively new character--so the copyright clock won't start running out until you get into the 22nd century (in the year 2110, if copyright can make it by then, if man is still alive, if woman can survive, they may fall).
For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/
well,I am new guy who loved morrison's superman.For me,that is superman..In jeans and tshirt.Oh! i was more into mangas,still am.I suspect there would be others like myself.And i have seen a couple of them joining after rebirth and was into jon.The direction changes have been an annoyance..yes..But,not as much as character being stuck in a rut and " going back to classic byrne or donner" takes..I mean,can these guys just do their own takes on the character?why should i care about superman 1970 or 1986?i came here for modern adaptations of the old pulp fiction hero superman that siegel and shuster left behind.That's it.
Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 10-20-2021 at 10:40 AM.
"People’s Dreams... Have No Ends"
Sort of. I'm no expert--I only glanced at the New 52 comics. The Morrison in ACTION was a young Superman. But the comics were all over the map, with an older Superman in other comics. And the Batman family was where they had been before Flashpoint, with just some characters missing.
This is what they always do when they reboot. Some things start at the beginning but others are not. So it's all a mess. It would be okay, if these were different universes, but if it's a shared universe, then it should restart across the board at the same place.
I care about Clark Kent Superman, not the other versions.
That is pretty much my same position with the Batman family.
I care about Bruce Wayne Batman, not the Batfamily, with the exception
of Dick Grayson.
I'm not invested in Jon Kent either in a positive or negative version.
That said it is entirely possible for Jon to become the Superman of this generation.
I just have a hard time thinking he can become a replacement for Clark.
Even the whole Supermen motif will only have the effect of muddying the waters.
I think that there is a cyclical effect in circulation numbers. If you want to argue
for a reboot, what has gone on with Superman is part of the problem. But a reboot
will only work once they figure out what to do with Supes.
Jon is nowhere as destructive to Superman's legacy than the ridiculous Injustice films,
along with the Snyder DCEU films.
If you're looking purely at numbers, then you have to go to DCEU or video games simply because people who read or just pay attention to comics are such a smaller population.
But if you truncate your data and just look at people who do pay close attention, I would eliminate DCEU in the sense that I don't think Superman fans are against having Superman in the DCEU. You can eliminate much of the divisiveness by making changes to the character. I think all of us here are in favor of some kind of cinematic Superman. It's just the loud ones among us have standards we want met.
Jon "wins" for me because every step along the way is a bit divisive. Should he exist or not? Check. Should he be infant, child, or teen-aged? Should he have a separate line of books as a supporting character or should the main line focus on him? Should he be hetero or bi, or other? Should this character be permanent or should he disappear in the next reboot we all expect will eventually happen? I get that you could make a similar argument for DCEU Superman, in that every decision you make will hurt somebody's feelings, but at least old fogeys like me aren't going to get too miffed just because DCEU Superman exists in some version. You can make creative decisions to win us over. Main comic Jon is forever lost to me and hardliners who say "No" to things like children in continuity, or at least it feels this way, and now he's been around long enough that people will (reasonably) be angry if he disappears.
Jon beats Injustice Supes in my book because this EVIL SUPERMAN! isn't exactly meant to last forever, or at least I don't read it that way. I sort of see him like Kevin Conroy's DCAU Batman. You know there'll be a day when that version of the character is retired or at least mostly retired. IJ beats Jon again in terms of sheer numbers of affected people, but if you're just looking at percentages of people who are impacted by these stories and lasting effect, I think Jon wins.
I loved kid Jon. I have hated nearly everything Bendis did with him since he took over. That is not just Jon though I hate everything Superman related Bendis has done. The next Crisis can't come soon enough and wipe away everything that hack did.
Pretty much. While I still love New 52 Superman and haven't and never will agree with the common complaints about his character in particular, the overall DC initiative failed because thy made it confusing when not being confusing should have been one of the advertised perks to offset what was lost. Instead they lost history, and didn't even gain that concept of clean slates. You can't half ass a reboot, it just makes no sense. You do it or don't. And if you don't want the losses that come with it, fine. Just don't think you can half ass it. Now, to their credit, they have done that here with Infinite Frontier. I hate most everything it stands for but from the point of view of rebooting, it at the very least is not trying to do that half-hearted again. Lots of (too much) legacy is their new attempt to get young again without rebooting. I can give it that much if not much else.
Last edited by Sacred Knight; 10-20-2021 at 12:54 PM.
"They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El
Not a fan of Jon but I don't dislike him either.
My favorite of "Superman's Children" was Christopher Kent. I absolutely loved his story. The son of Zod and Ursa only to be adopted by Clark and Lois. They're carrying the Torch from Jonathan and Martha.
I'm not a fan of Superman as a father in any facet, so I wasn't big on Chris at the time either (though I didn't hate him with the fervor I hate Jon and any of this current stuff). By comparison, that character, dynamic with Clark and Lois, the parallels, it was so wildly superior.
Last edited by Sacred Knight; 10-21-2021 at 12:56 PM.
"They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El