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  1. #16
    Always Rakzo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Really? I feel like it's more just for drama with Dinah.
    Eh, is not like Dinah is really needed to define Ollie.

  2. #17
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    People who for some reason hate the aspect that makes Ollie more complex.
    People who hate a hypocritical narrative choice that makes their protagonist a shitty person and flies in the face of the characterization that revitalized Oliver and is why people cherish him? Can't imagine why!
    May we never forget:

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  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Grell as far as I know, and only a few writers pick up on it (Winick, Rucka). Most people hate cheating Ollie and rightfully ignore that bullshit.
    ^^^im w. you on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    People who for some reason hate the aspect that makes Ollie more complex.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    Eh, is not like Dinah is really needed to define Ollie.
    ^^^agree to disagree.

  4. #19
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Maybe if Ollie was ever shown cheating on someone besides Dinah, so many wouldn't hate that quality in him...?
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  5. #20
    Always Rakzo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    People who hate a hypocritical narrative choice that makes their protagonist a shitty person and flies in the face of the characterization that revitalized Oliver and is why people cherish him? Can't imagine why!
    Ollie should always be a little sh*tty. That's part of his appeal.

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    It might happen too often, but I like Ollie having cheated. He wears his heart on his sleeve more than any other hero and often goes with his gut only to regret it later. No stranger to self-loathing either. I don't need those to be his primary traits but I'm more comfortable in indulging his flaws than pretty much any other hero.

  7. #22
    Incredible Member Hol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    It might happen too often, but I like Ollie having cheated. He wears his heart on his sleeve more than any other hero and often goes with his gut only to regret it later. No stranger to self-loathing either. I don't need those to be his primary traits but I'm more comfortable in indulging his flaws than pretty much any other hero.
    This pretty much sums it up for me.
    Read the current Flash run by Jeremy Adams! The first issue is #768. The best comic being published by DC these days. Hands down.

  8. #23
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    It might happen too often, but I like Ollie having cheated. He wears his heart on his sleeve more than any other hero and often goes with his gut only to regret it later. No stranger to self-loathing either. I don't need those to be his primary traits but I'm more comfortable in indulging his flaws than pretty much any other hero.
    I can accept him cheating once and making that kind of mistake. I don't necessarily see him as a serial cheater.

    Granted (depending on what continuity you look at) he gets it from his parents.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    Ollie cheated on Dinah with a girl named Marianne during Mike Grell's run... and later cheated on Dinah once again with Black Lightning's niece.
    I might remember that wrong but wasn't the thing with Marianne just a kiss? And wasn't Marianne the one who initiated it?

    And were he and Dinah even together when the thing with Black Lightning's niece happend?
    Last edited by Aahz; 10-19-2021 at 11:36 PM.

  10. #25
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    I find it funny how people argue that Oliver being a cheater "makes him more complex" when the first instance of him doing that was a writer treating him being raped as consensual sex.

  11. #26
    Extraordinary Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I find it funny how people argue that Oliver being a cheater "makes him more complex" when the first instance of him doing that was a writer treating him being raped as consensual sex.
    It’s one of those things that just seems to be misinterpreted by both fans and writers.
    It’s like the game where someone whispers a message in someone else’s ear then that person passes it on and multiple ppl later you find the message has changed.

  12. #27
    Three Legged Member married guy's Avatar
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    That was the one storyline I HATED from Winick, and it was his first one.
    Straight into cheating on Dinah with Black Lightning's never-before mentioned niece.
    He got better once he moved away from the 'Ollie is a serial cheater' thing, but those issues pissed me off.
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  13. #28
    Always Rakzo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    I might remember that wrong but wasn't the thing with Marianne just a kiss? And wasn't Marianne the one who initiated it?
    Which Ollie also recognized that he wanted it and later slept together.

    And were he and Dinah even together when the thing with Black Lightning's niece happend?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I find it funny how people argue that Oliver being a cheater "makes him more complex" when the first instance of him doing that was a writer treating him being raped as consensual sex.
    ... Later being revealed that it was consentual which in hindsight it fits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I can accept him cheating once and making that kind of mistake. I don't necessarily see him as a serial cheater.

    Granted (depending on what continuity you look at) he gets it from his parents.
    I liked the explanation that J.T. Krul gave about how Ollie does it subconsciously (in part) because he learned it from his father when he was little which also explains his self-hatred.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    Which Ollie also recognized that he wanted it and later slept together.



    Yes.



    ... Later being revealed that it was consentual which in hindsight it fits.



    I liked the explanation that J.T. Krul gave about how Ollie does it subconsciously (in part) because he learned it from his father when he was little which also explains his self-hatred.
    Retconning a rape into consensual sex because people don't think men can be raped isn't exactly the pinnacle of good writing. And considering it was revealed in a Blackest Night tie-in of all things - a book not well known for good exploration of character - I can't see how anyone could take it seriously.

    It's not Oliver cheating was always a part of his character anyway nor is it even all that complex (that word truly keeps losing more and more meaning).

  15. #30
    Always Rakzo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Retconning a rape into consensual sex because people don't think men can be raped isn't exactly the pinnacle of good writing.
    I doubt it was about "men can't be raped" and more like "Ollie wanted to have sex with Shado".

    And considering it was revealed in a Blackest Night tie-in of all things - a book not well known for good exploration of character - I can't see how anyone could take it seriously.
    For the most part it was.

    It's not Oliver cheating was always a part of his character anyway nor is it even all that complex (that word truly keeps losing more and more meaning).
    It definitely adds to his character.

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