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Thread: Diana and Steve

  1. #16
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Someone get Travis Moore to redraw this pic and readers will understand what was admirable about Steve.

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  2. #17
    Mighty Member Largo161's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    Someone get Travis Moore to redraw this pic and readers will understand what was admirable about Steve.

    HG Peter’s Steve is a hottie. No Travis Moore redraw necessary. LOL
    I only support clay origins.

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  3. #18
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    I think what happened is that, as others have said, writers wanted Diana to be the arm candy, or date their favorite hero. So Steve got side lined a lot, and to a lot of writers, probably a lot in the 90s, he was seen as weaker or lame. What to do with him. Personally I think he's great and a good compliment to her. I hope that in the near future someone does pair him with her again, because every other love interest they try tends to be bland, dull, or a knock off of another hero.

    I think the movie helped a lot, I would also say the Animated movie did a lot to help too before then. The brave and the bold clip did help too in that it showed that it was perfectly fine for Steve to be saved, and he wanted to be saved by her. I really think, when written well, they're cute.

    Again I think what could work right now is a YA based graphic novel from Steve's perspective and Diana's where they meet. You could probably do him as either new in the military, or have him be the son of an officer that ended up on the island. I mean really it's not that hard to do this romance. I think people are nervous about him being Military, you can make him an ambassador or some other government official.

  4. #19
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    I think what happened is that, as others have said, writers wanted Diana to be the arm candy, or date their favorite hero. So Steve got side lined a lot, and to a lot of writers, probably a lot in the 90s, he was seen as weaker or lame. What to do with him. Personally I think he's great and a good compliment to her. I hope that in the near future someone does pair him with her again, because every other love interest they try tends to be bland, dull, or a knock off of another hero.

    I think the movie helped a lot, I would also say the Animated movie did a lot to help too before then. The brave and the bold clip did help too in that it showed that it was perfectly fine for Steve to be saved, and he wanted to be saved by her. I really think, when written well, they're cute.

    Again I think what could work right now is a YA based graphic novel from Steve's perspective and Diana's where they meet. You could probably do him as either new in the military, or have him be the son of an officer that ended up on the island. I mean really it's not that hard to do this romance. I think people are nervous about him being Military, you can make him an ambassador or some other government official.
    In the 90's Steve was off limits because he was twice Diana's age.

    But yeah, they lost so much interest in him he was dying all the time before Post-Crisis aged him up.
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  5. #20
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    In the 90's Steve was off limits because he was twice Diana's age.

    But yeah, they lost so much interest in him he was dying all the time before Post-Crisis aged him up.
    Worth noting also, Perez wanted to remove the plot point Diana left the island for a man.

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member John Venus's Avatar
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    It's sad when 1940's Steve was more progressive than 2009 movie Steve.

  7. #22
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    It's sad when 1940's Steve was more progressive than 2009 movie Steve.
    ...The truth of that statement brings me physical pain...
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  8. #23
    Mighty Member witchboy's Avatar
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    I think there was also in the post Crisis era a move to have Diana be strong and they didn't want her to be defined by a man. They changed Steve to not be her love interest, and the post Crisis Wonder Woman was really well written and empowering for women, but they never did give her a love interest that was successful. It became a stumbling block that she couldn't be a strong woman and have a relationship.
    The problems of treating her like a prize for to be paired with writers' favorite male heroes is obvious and embarrassing.
    I think it is sexist that some people think that Diana should only be with another hero, that her partner's worth must be defined by how well they can compare to her own power and skills. That's how we got forced relationships with Batman and Superman.
    I always rooted for Diana and Steve. When he's written well he compliments her emotionally. The whole point of her being strong is that she doesn't need a man that can fight as her equal.
    I'm glad that Pine has revived Steve's popularity. I have to add I loved the Brave and the Bold version of Steve, who was funny and so confident that he wasn't insecure about Diana's power and skill.

  9. #24
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    It's sad when 1940's Steve was more progressive than 2009 movie Steve.
    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    ...The truth of that statement brings me physical pain...
    This is why I prefer Bloodlines to the 2009 movie.

    For all of its many flaws, Diana, Steve (especially) and Etta are all WAY better characterized there than in the 2009 movie.

  10. #25
    Mighty Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Worth noting also, Perez wanted to remove the plot point Diana left the island for a man.
    In his version Diana was on her way to leave the island before Steve even arrived, so removing the romance completely was kinda unnecessary. And he really didn't need to be aged up for that, it's not like men and women of similar age can't be just friends

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchboy View Post
    I think there was also in the post Crisis era a move to have Diana be strong and they didn't want her to be defined by a man. They changed Steve to not be her love interest, and the post Crisis Wonder Woman was really well written and empowering for women, but they never did give her a love interest that was successful. It became a stumbling block that she couldn't be a strong woman and have a relationship.
    The problems of treating her like a prize for to be paired with writers' favorite male heroes is obvious and embarrassing.
    I think it is sexist that some people think that Diana should only be with another hero, that her partner's worth must be defined by how well they can compare to her own power and skills. That's how we got forced relationships with Batman and Superman.
    I always rooted for Diana and Steve. When he's written well he compliments her emotionally. The whole point of her being strong is that she doesn't need a man that can fight as her equal.
    I'm glad that Pine has revived Steve's popularity. I have to add I loved the Brave and the Bold version of Steve, who was funny and so confident that he wasn't insecure about Diana's power and skill.
    Hmm, yeah that's a vibe I've always gotten with when they push the Superman and Batman relationships. Batman in particular.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    In his version Diana was on her way to leave the island before Steve even arrived, so removing the romance completely was kinda unnecessary. And he really didn't need to be aged up for that, it's not like men and women of similar age can't be just friends
    Yes, but tell that to most superhero writers.

  12. #27
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    In his version Diana was on her way to leave the island before Steve even arrived, so removing the romance completely was kinda unnecessary. And he really didn't need to be aged up for that, it's not like men and women of similar age can't be just friends
    Yeah the order of events in the Perez run regarding Steve's arrival is really bad and unnecessary. I think the movie and Year One did it much better, where his arrival alerts the Amazons to Ares being active and needing to send a champion. Even despite Diana having an instant connection with Steve in both versions, her primary motive is still to deal with Ares and not because she suddenly fell in love with a man she didn't know. It combines the best of both worlds.

  13. #28
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Rucka also gave Diana a lover on Themyscira so it wouldn’t come across like she was leaving the island to pursue Steve as a romantic interest.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  14. #29
    Extraordinary Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Rucka also brought back the idea that Diana can't ever return to Themyscira if she left. The page/panels with Diana's girlfriends isn't enough to fill a comic book but Diana/Steve got a whole love saga.

    So it's still Perez >> Rucka in my book.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    In his version Diana was on her way to leave the island before Steve even arrived, so removing the romance completely was kinda unnecessary. And he really didn't need to be aged up for that, it's not like men and women of similar age can't be just friends
    I think he was also trying to make sure future writers can't pair them up either. He was future proofing his take.

  15. #30
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Rucka also brought back the idea that Diana can't ever return to Themyscira if she left. The page/panels with Diana's girlfriends isn't enough to fill a comic book but Diana/Steve got a whole love saga.

    So it's still Perez >> Rucka in my book.
    I wouldn't say they got a love saga, at least not to the detriment of other areas and relationships. I'd say Barbara Ann and Veronica have bigger parts to play than Steve, or they were at least balanced out well compared to how the movies treat that relationship vs. her other dynamics. It's not like Perez gave her a romantic interest of any sort aside from ship teasing with Superman (*gag*)

    Perez bogged it down with having her leave in too many stages (Contest, Harmonia's amulet, Steve finally showed up, ok now we can finally leave) that the more streamlined take in Year One is easier to read and more to the point. In addition to just using Steve's gun as opposed to Diana Trevor's.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    I think he was also trying to make sure future writers can't pair them up either. He was future proofing his take.
    That seems kind of needless and not being considerate to future authors. It should have at least always been an option even if he didn't want to write it himself.

    The parade of duds we got after Perez left and turning Nemesis in discount Steve because they couldn't use the real deal may not have happened.

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