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Thread: Diana and Steve

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    Default Diana and Steve

    Why has DC trashed this coupling instead of pushing it as an iconic coupling like Clark and Lois? I love the couple and feel that Steve should be her main love interest. It deserves to be just as iconic as L&C. Fans have always felt that Clark should be only with Lois. But post Crisis, there's always been this push to either sideline Steve or pair him with someone else. How is it that writers know how to write Lois and Clark even though that dynamic with one having powers and the other not is the same as Steve and Diana? Lois has always been a part of Clark's stories whether he's galavanting off in space or earthbound. There's so many ways the Steve/Diana coupling can be serious romantic and funny at the same time.

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    1st: Because Infinite Crisis made Steve twice Diana's age for 25 years of her publication. Probably to completely squash the notion that she left the Island to be with him (which was true in her original origin).

    2nd: Because New 52 turned all their iconic character into high schoolers, and with that mentality figured you need to have the Quarterback (Superman) date the captain of the cheerleader's (Wonder Woman). Also New 52 cut Wonder Woman off from most of her supporting cast in general, not just Steve.

    3rd: Because until recently, very little of her outside media has been adapted as it's own property (notice how her TV show, live action and animated movies include Steve ). So Wonder Woman was inserted into a world revolving around the Justice League and not her own mythos. The side characters are going to get cut in a team setting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    1st: Because Infinite Crisis made Steve twice Diana's age for 25 years of her publication. Probably to completely squash the notion that she left the Island to be with him (which was true in her original origin).

    2nd: Because New 52 turned all their iconic character into high schoolers, and with that mentality figured you need to have the Quarterback (Superman) date the captain of the cheerleader's (Wonder Woman). Also New 52 cut Wonder Woman off from most of her supporting cast in general, not just Steve.

    3rd: Because until recently, very little of her outside media has been adapted as it's own property (notice how her TV show, live action and animated movies include Steve ). So Wonder Woman was inserted into a world revolving around the Justice League and not her own mythos. The side characters are going to get cut in a team setting.
    Crisis on Infinite Earths, not Infinite Crisis, but even before they struggled with him A LOT. He was usually her love interest, but he died pretty often even so.

    Truthfully, Steve was only her usual love interest because nobody could make anyone else work either and he was the first. It's Chris Pine that made all of us sweat profusely and wonder who cranked the heat up in that theater.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Crisis on Infinite Earths, not Infinite Crisis, but even before they struggled with him A LOT. He was usually her love interest, but he died pretty often even so.
    Argh, that’s what I meant. Curse you DC and your confusing “Crisis” events!

    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Truthfully, Steve was only her usual love interest because nobody could make anyone else work either and he was the first. It's Chris Pine that made all of us sweat profusely and wonder who cranked the heat up in that theater.
    Chris Pine turned Steve Trevor into someone who is…shall we say, “above average”.
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    In addition what Fish said, DC's always liked to push Diana as a love interest (translation: arm candy/disposable rebound girl) in a lot odf comics and adaptations for Superman or Batman which combined with what Fish said about lack of WW-centered adaptations means it also has to compete with two of the biggest names in superhero comics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    In addition what Fish said, DC's always liked to push Diana as a love interest (translation: arm candy/disposable rebound girl) in a lot odf comics and adaptations for Superman or Batman which combined with what Fish said about lack of WW-centered adaptations means it also has to compete with two of the biggest names in superhero comics.
    Well, it is a missed opportunity but never too late I say. Lois was mishandled in the GA comics in the 40s-50s. She was written as the girlfriend wondering if her boyfriend still loves her. And yet she's still the mainstay love interest to this day. She's been written as a strong independent character as well. Steve can be written in a similar fashion with Diana. The writers just have to pick up the ball. Hopefully Steve's presence in other media can change that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    Well, it is a missed opportunity but never too late I say. Lois was mishandled in the GA comics in the 40s-50s. She was written as the girlfriend wondering if her boyfriend still loves her. And yet she's still the mainstay love interest to this day. She's been written as a strong independent character as well. Steve can be written in a similar fashion with Diana. The writers just have to pick up the ball. Hopefully Steve's presence in other media can change that.
    Rucka did a good job with Steve at the start of Rebirth, IMO. He turned him into a lovable, hunky dork who didn’t hold Diana back in anyway. (And I think Steve was always meant to be a bit of a himbo TBH. )
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    Argh, that’s what I meant. Curse you DC and your confusing “Crisis” events!



    Chris Pine turned Steve Trevor into someone who is…shall we say, “above average”.
    Steve never really clicked for me until that movie. I always felt he was lacking as a love interest for as rich a character as Diana, but no longer.

    As for being "above average," I can see why she didn't get over him for 60 years and I'm straight. lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    In addition what Fish said, DC's always liked to push Diana as a love interest (translation: arm candy/disposable rebound girl) in a lot odf comics and adaptations for Superman or Batman which combined with what Fish said about lack of WW-centered adaptations means it also has to compete with two of the biggest names in superhero comics.

    Yeah, I'm over Trinity shipping strictly because of this shit. Even in Elseworlds, it's a hard sell for me. That well has been poisoned.
    Last edited by Robanker; 10-20-2021 at 10:59 AM.
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    Without saying it directly, I think this clip from The Brave and the Bold explains what editorial's and part of the fandom's opinion of Steve was during the decades leading up to COIE. Steve is this weak, ineffectual goof with no real appealing characteristics who's lucky that Wonder Woman likes him and would bail him out of any situation. By editorial and fan standards, this was "ok" for a female, but unacceptable for a male character.

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    I always hated Steve from pre-crisis, so every time he died I was more than happy.
    Then I got used to the Steve from volume 2, the old one.
    Only with Rucka I really cared for him for the very first time... and then, thank you very much Patty and Chris Pine.

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    I understood the intent behind Steve's creation but the character himself never really did anything for me. Chris Pine was the first time the character felt engaging. Rebirth had him as this sort of Female Gaze Eye Candy which worked for the target audience.

    Lois and Clark are inseparable because of their chemistry. Lois is the fierce, feisty reporter who is out to find the truth no matter what. Clark is the literal God amongst mortals pretending to be a clumsy reporter who admires Lois for her lack of fear and goes out of his way to protect her and save her. They balance each other out.

    Diana/Steve just lacks something to keep it engaging for a long time. With Clark and Lois you can keep writing endless amounts of stories of them out looking for stories and competing with each other and eventually getting married and having kids with all the challenges that comes with every step of the way.

    Once Diana leaves the island, falls in love with Steve, defeats Ares and they kiss, where do you go from there? Johns tried to make him the 'ARGUS' guy and filling in a Nick Fury/Coulson type role but in the DCU that's a role that literally any generic secret agent character can fill.

    It's just much more sensible for Steve to be Diana's first boyfriend, they have a relationship but eventually he dies or they break up and go their separate ways to date other people.

    Just because Superman, Batman, GL or Flash does something doesn't mean has to follow suit. She has to follow her own path as well and do what makes sense for her character.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post


    Without saying it directly, I think this clip from The Brave and the Bold explains what editorial's and part of the fandom's opinion of Steve was during the decades leading up to COIE. Steve is this weak, ineffectual goof with no real appealing characteristics who's lucky that Wonder Woman likes him and would bail him out of any situation. By editorial and fan standards, this was "ok" for a female, but unacceptable for a male character.
    I love that clip, lol! Thanks for posting it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post


    Without saying it directly, I think this clip from The Brave and the Bold explains what editorial's and part of the fandom's opinion of Steve was during the decades leading up to COIE. Steve is this weak, ineffectual goof with no real appealing characteristics who's lucky that Wonder Woman likes him and would bail him out of any situation. By editorial and fan standards, this was "ok" for a female, but unacceptable for a male character.
    you bring up a good point.

    What people should have realized about Marston's Steve is that he complimented Diana, not just about her looks, but her actions. He complimented her on her athleticism, smarts, you know, things women weren't exactly complimented for in 1942.

    Diana didn't need it, she was always plenty sure of herself and rightfully so. Steve was more-so their for the audience to learn from in that regard.

    People asked "what did she see in him". Well, maybe people just like people who are nice to them. (Also Golden Age Steve liked to cook, so that automatically makes him 300% more attractive. )
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Yeah, I'm over Trinity shipping strictly because of this shit. Even in Elseworlds, it's a hard sell for me. That well has been poisoned.
    Yeah, I originally only really supported Steve originally because of all the actual tangible romantic options he was the least bad option in comparison to Superman and Bruce Timm’s self-insert fantasy. But stuff like the movie, Rebirth, and other readings made me think he actually does have value as love interest/character beyond that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    you bring up a good point.

    What people should have realized about Marston's Steve is that he complimented Diana, not just about her looks, but her actions. He complimented her on her athleticism, smarts, you know, things women weren't exactly complimented for in 1942.

    Diana didn't need it, she was always plenty sure of herself and rightfully so. Steve was more-so their for the audience to learn from in that regard.

    People asked "what did she see in him". Well, maybe people just like people who are nice to them. (Also Golden Age Steve liked to cook, so that automatically makes him 300% more attractive. )
    I think Steve's appeal also just came from getting masculine without being macho. He wasn't trying to sideline her or teach her a place all the time, at least under Marston.


    Partners unwilling to share the responsibility of housework can fuck right off. Taking care of yourself is part of being an adult. Steve being ahead on that curve kind of proves he's always been in the right direction for Diana but writers at DC historically did not seem to understand women enough to write a compelling love interest for them and as a result Steve's been incredibly uneven until Pine started living in everyone's brain rent free.
    Last edited by Robanker; 10-20-2021 at 04:06 PM.
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