Viltrumites vs Saiyans

[Primetime Harder]

Just "Vegeta" means BoG Vegeta right?

Should have specified end-of-DBZ Vegeta; my bad.

[Aura Blaize]

That's not really what happened.

18 was *surprised* by Future Trunks/Goten's power (as was everyone else, including Teen Gohan), but that whole fight was more of a "how seriously do I need to take these kids" thing as she got more and more serious, but still underestimated them quite a bit, until she decided to just end it due to there even being a possibility of losing (due to not knowing their upper limit yet).

The androids don't sense ki, so they go more on what they see than anything.

Goten and Trunks are *somewhere* around Freeza where he can at least give them somewhat of a challenge. They're somewhere around initial SSJ Goku level. Future Trunks gets into Freeza stomp level.

To be fair, we honestly don't know where Goten/Trunks are. Past initial SSJ Goku is likely but they really didn't do much fighting on their own. Most of their fights were fused as Gotenks.

[Captain Jibberish]

To be fair, we honestly don't know where Goten/Trunks are. Past initial SSJ Goku is likely but they really didn't do much fighting on their own. Most of their fights were fused as Gotenks.

I think we can at least say they are both weaker then Piccolo during the Buu saga, since Super Buu (after absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo) went from a Gotenks based form to a Piccolo based form after the Gotenks fusion expired.

[big_adventure]

I think we can at least say they are both weaker then Piccolo during the Buu saga, since Super Buu (after absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo) went from a Gotenks based form to a Piccolo based form after the Gotenks fusion expired.

The problem with that is, we really don't know exactly where Piccolo is during the Buu saga. All he did was fight Buu and lose badly - just like everyone else in the non-Gotenks / non-Vegito division. That said, I'd agree that Piccolo, by that point, is stronger than either of the two boys when the boys aren't SSJ - which was the case there. It's not all that clear, but you can see black hair on Goten in his cocoon when Vegeta and Goku are ripping them out inside of Super Buu. Piccolo gave a good accounting of himself against Cell, and had likely been training (as usual) for the years between Cell and Buu, so it's normal that he's near the top tier of strength.