My problem with marvels female “derivatives” in recent years.

[mathew101281]

Characters like She hulk and X-23. I feel Marvel is removing everything that made them unique and instead just making them only female versions of their male counterparts. Anyone else see this as an issue.

[Spiderfan001]

Yeah, although she hulk seems to be getting back to how she was before the change.
These 2 are great legacy character but recently became just female versions of the originals.

I personally prefer legacies that vary from the original like Original She hulk and Miguel O'hara etc. as compared to Laura(as Wolvie) and Miles.The latter are way too similar to the originals while the former have traits in common w/ the original but are unique enough to be different and interesting.

[Baron of Faltine]

Yeah, although she hulk seems to be getting back to how she was before the change.
These 2 are great legacy character but recently became just female versions of the originals.

I personally prefer legacies that vary from the original like Original She hulk and Miguel O'hara etc. as compared to Laura(as Wolvie) and Miles.The latter are way too similar to the originals while the former have traits in common w/ the original but are unique enough to be different and interesting.

You know Spiderfan you really highlighted something I was searching word for.
Legacy characters and simple derivations are two different things, and I think I should thank you for that.

[JudicatorPrime]

Characters like She hulk and X-23. I feel Marvel is removing everything that made them unique and instead just making them only female versions of their male counterparts. Anyone else see this as an issue.

To my mind they were intended to be female versions of male characters all along. This isn't new and they're not the only ones. Right, Carol Danvers? And it's not even unique to Marvel. Right, Mary Marvel, Power Girl, Supergirl and Batgirl???

At the end of the day, this is just another way of showing that original concepts are few and far in between in comics. If it's not the female versions of male characters, it's the endless number of derivative characters. Right, Thunderstrike?

And why stop there? The so-called "homage" characters come to mind as well. They're really just a way for one company to copy another company's character and use them as they please, smiling all the while. Right, Deadpool?

Honestly, folks, we're waaaaay past getting upset over something that is the hallmark and life's pseudo-blood of the institution. You can call for change, but don't expect anyone that is filling their pockets based on these practices to hear you.

[marhawkman]

To my mind they were intended to be female versions of male characters all along. This isn't new and they're not the only ones. Right, Carol Danvers? And it's not even unique to Marvel. Right, Mary Marvel, Power Girl, Supergirl and Batgirl???

At the end of the day, this is just another way of showing that original concepts are few and far in between in comics. If it's not the female versions of male characters, it's the endless number of derivative characters. Right, Thunderstrike?

And why stop there? The so-called "homage" characters come to mind as well. They're really just a way for one company to copy another company's character and use them as they please, smiling all the while. Right, Deadpool?

Honestly, folks, we're waaaaay past getting upset over something that is the hallmark and life's pseudo-blood of the institution. You can call for change, but don't expect anyone that is filling their pockets based on these practices to hear you.

The question is if it's an interesting character, and that's where a lot of derivates fail... they're just "x but with a green hat"

Part of why I like Silk... weird character concept, but... she's unique. She's not "Spider-Man but in white costume".

[Ptrvc]

It's all very unnatural and editorially based Look at Hulk and Wolverine, neither Bruce or Logan would want anyone following in their footsteps, much less anyone they care about. They both walk unhappy paths explicitly "damned" in certain runs. There is also no need to replace them as they are both effectively or literally immortal.

But their was an editorial mandate to replace them and so you have other characters taking their *mantles* (Hulk doesn't wear a shirt much less a mantle) by characters that should be more than aware that neither man would ever want them too.

[marhawkman]

It's all very unnatural and editorially based Look at Hulk and Wolverine, neither Bruce or Logan would want anyone following in their footsteps, much less anyone they care about. They both walk unhappy paths explicitly "damned" in certain runs. There is also no need to replace them as they are both effectively or literally immortal.

But their was an editorial mandate to replace them and so you have other characters taking their *mantles* (Hulk doesn't wear a shirt much less a mantle) by characters that should be more than aware that neither man would ever want them too.

I suspect the real-world reason could be a matter of copyright law. :/ The Mouse can't prevent them from becoming public domain eventually. Soo... kill them off and replace them every few decades.

[Grapeweasel]

They're only trying to sell comics here.

If a characterization doesn't pay off they try different things until it does.

[Username taken]

Characters like She hulk and X-23. I feel Marvel is removing everything that made them unique and instead just making them only female versions of their male counterparts. Anyone else see this as an issue.

I agree.

It's like the writers are trying a bit too hard to make "statements" that they simply turn them into their male counterparts.

The She-Hulk example was really problematic on a number of different levels that I don't want to get into.

[Anthony W]

Characters like She hulk and X-23. I feel Marvel is removing everything that made them unique and instead just making them only female versions of their male counterparts. Anyone else see this as an issue.

This is kind of dicey. Think of every hero at Marvel as a soda. Think of the original as the original flavor and then go from there.

Spider-Man is classic Coca-Cola.

Miles is cherry Coca-Cola.

Spiderwoman is Lime Coca-Cola

Captain Marvel is Mello Yellow Zero

[Spiderfan001]

This is kind of dicey. Think of every hero at Marvel as a soda. Think of the original as the original flavor and then go from there.

Spider-Man is classic Coca-Cola.

Miles is cherry Coca-Cola.

Spiderwoman is Lime Coca-Cola

Captain Marvel is Mello Yellow Zero

I think OP means they are taking away the special flavors that made those character what they were and instead making them more like the original e.x. She hulk recently and Laura in the current X-men run.

Spider-woman is vastly diff. to the point I'd say she's just using the same brand but flavor is completely diff.(a good thing), Silk/Miguel seems like someone w/ similar flavors but there own twist, Miles is basically a diluted original w/ very small twists and then Spider-man would be the original.

[Sutekh]

Spider-woman is vastly diff. to the point I'd say she's just using the same brand but flavor is completely diff.(a good thing), Silk/Miguel seems like someone w/ similar flavors but there own twist, Miles is basically a diluted original w/ very small twists and then Spider-man would be the original.

One thing I liked about Jessica Drew (and later, Julia Carpenter) is that they were *so* different, powers-wise, and in their origins, than Spider-Man, which made them feel nicely *not* derivative, despite the derivative names. Julia's powers even tying together (the same psi-force that allows her to throw 'webs' also anchors her to walls and allows her to cling and swing? Cool!) made it even more elegant feeling to me than Jessica's kinda random collection of flight, super-strength, wall-climbing, pheremones and 'venom blasts.'

As much as I like the *idea* of Silk, and find her a fun character, both in her solo stories and in Agents of Atlas, I find her 'just like Spider-Man' origin to be utterly bland. Even worse, she's like a Daken, all the powers of the original, plus some other crap. (organic webs, just like Daken is 'Wolverine + pheremones,' I like even less when the new, new version has all the original's powers, and more stuff!)

I love a good twist. Finding out that 'Hulkling' is a shapeshifting Skrull with some enhanced strength from his super-strong Kree dad? So much more interesting than 'got a blood transfusion from He-Hulk.'

[The Cool Thatguy]

Honestly, I like most female spin offs, but as a whole they annoy me.

How does Marvel still not have a powerful, super strong female character who isn't her own character?

Why haven't they made more effort to avoid derivative characters, and get some females who have their own damn mythos?

What freakin' year is this?

[Sutekh]

Honestly, I like most female spin offs, but as a whole they annoy me.

How does Marvel still not have a powerful, super strong female character who isn't her own character?

Why haven't they made more effort to avoid derivative characters, and get some females who have their own damn mythos?

What freakin' year is this?

I guess with their 'Wonder Woman' being Storm, and the primary ladies on other teams not being strength-based-characters (Invisible Woman, Wasp, Scarlet Witch), and all the derivative super-strong ladies (She-Hulk, She-Spider-Man, She-Namor, She-Captain-Marvel, She-Thing, She-Thor), they never really noticed it.

Had Barbara Norris/Valkyrie either as a Defender or a Fearless Defender taken off, that would at least have been one. Or Sersi spent more time as an Avenger (and not quite so much a focus on her epic transmutation powers, and noted that she can lift like 20-40 tons, fly, throw zaps and tank a nuclear blast, when she's not in the mood to turn her enemies into pigs or do mind-whammies or illusions). Rogue's a weird case, since her strength is a hand-me-down from Carol which was a hand-me-down from Mar-Vell...

Thundra, maybe, although she squeaks 'not a Wonder Woman clone!' if you touch her.

[Yin&Yang]

Honestly, I like most female spin offs, but as a whole they annoy me.

How does Marvel still not have a powerful, super strong female character who isn't her own character?

Why haven't they made more effort to avoid derivative characters, and get some females who have their own damn mythos?

What freakin' year is this?

Ms.America America Chavez. Super strength with unknown limits?, Superdurability, FTL speed, Teleporation interdimensional. I think she has her own unique Mythos.