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  1. #106
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Well technically Cable was in his original cast… just the teen version. So now he’s got the OG adult version to play with. Which he did really well in the Cable: Reloaded one-shot.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Really? You see the arraki sort of like the neo? I guess i can see that but i'm thinking huge with planet arrako like it's the main thing that rocks my mind out of hickman run in that i imagine a thor run where he visits planet arrako, or cap, or a spider man adventure there and him making friends with some of the arraki, wilson fisk trying to expand his empire there. I just see so much story potential for the whole MU if people went there. Just the omega level Threats characters like Thor, or Blue Marvel could throw down against gets my imagination racing. Or even Hulk going to planet arrako. like imagine Hulk travelling around planet arrako potentially not being the biggest greenest and meanest. lol
    I compare them to the Neo because the way i see them, they check the same boxes as far as their premise and the attempt at hyping them up goes.

    The Neo were introduced as ancient civilization of mutants, comming out of nowhere, with no previous hint of their existence, with a tribalistic society and focus on fighting and conflict, who had existed unknown to humanity and modern mutants for a long time, during which they evolved/progressed according to their environment, resulting in them being stronger and more powerfull than "normal" mutants, at least according to the writer's attempt to hype them up, describing them as to mutants what mutants are to (normal) humans.

    I think there was also a bit where Cable described them as famous and feared, respected even by Apocalypse in his future... which is a classic example of quickly deflating hype for new characters/factions.

    The Arraki are an ancient civilization of mutants, comming out of nowhere, with no previous hint of their existence, with a tribalistic society and focus on fighting and surviving, who had existed unknown to humanity and modern mutants for a long time, during which they evolved/progressed according to their environment, resulting in them being stronger and more powerfull than the "normal" modern day mutants, at least according to the writer's attempt to hype them up, having Wolverine get a vision by Saturnyne which shows them utterly beating the rest of humanity in a one sided quick battle.

    They even somehow have pirates (how there was anything to raid and pillage from their fellow mutants when they only had a single island besieged by a demon horde is beyond me) just like, if memory serves me right, the Neo had the pirates too.

    So that allready taints my perspective on them, since i can't help but feel they have all the same problems, disconnect to the marvel mutant's basic premise and the same awkward attempt at trying hype them up as the Neo did.

    As i mentioned elsewhere in the past, i feel that the primary domain and comfort zone of Marvel's mutants (as general concept and in the often cited role as stand ins for minority groups) lies in a modern day, urban and cosmopolitical status quo.

    Basicly being a fictional and super powered version of the "others among us" situation that the primary readership (people living in modern urban environments) can understand/identify/relate to from their own environment. Because most people living in this situation will know the "others" (people from different cultures/countries, different appearance, different sexuality, different religion) in their society, or they are actualy part of such a group themself.

    This is after all the situation, which all adaptions of the X-men to TV and cinema have focused on so far and which in turn has arguably shaped the perception of what the X-men and marvel mutants are primarily about.

    Yes the X-men can have wacky adventures in space, magic realms, other dimensions and so on. They are super heros after all. But sooner or later it's back to the struggle of mutants being the "others" in a reflection of our modern day earth, especialy in the industrial nations. Which is also why i see the whole current krakoa status quo as narrative dead end, because this is not what the marvel mutants are about and what most people (especialy non-comic reader and casual fans via cartoons, movies, toys and video games) associate with the situation of the marvel mutants in the X-men comics.

    However groups like the Arraki and Neo don't fit into this role. They are basicly stuck between being too much tied to humanity to stand on their own (still being defacto humans via their mutant nature), unlike alien or magic races, too big or widespread to be a small hidden village, but also being too disconected from modern day or even historical societies and events to feel relevant to the mutant commentary.

    Infact being transported to Mars and becomming a problem only the X-men need to bother with, further removes the influence or connections they could have had to humanity. Making them basicly just another alien species in the narrative of the Marvel universe and that's a much larger uphill battle to fight, than just being a new earth based faction or a new alien species in the cosmic marvel setting.

    Especialy when one is also bogged down by a long winded backstory which involves retcons of established characters and their motivations, knowledge about a magical realm which mainly is important for a niche X-men comic and the current X-men status quo which might end up extremely fleeting in the comming years.

    Arrako can't simply be explained as "hidden mutant civilization" like the Morlocks or even the Neo, because it has been established as part of a continuity heavy current status quo that also goes astray from the basic premise of the marvel mutants.

    So as far as i can see it, Arrako as new faction is at quite a disadvantage when it comes to the goal of becomming a fixture in the Marvel comics, compared to anything new which can simply be explained as "new faction yet unseen". Because Arrako got introduced as old faction comming back, without having a real foundation in the publishing history.

    It certainly doesn't help that in the current age of Marvel comics most new creations are also essentialy doomed to fade into obscurity quickly, to the point where even joke characters from the golden years (here refering to the times when the "classic" characters and storylines where created that still get referenced or primarily adepted to TV and cinema) are more likely to re-appear or even get a good story than the "this is the best thing ever you will love this!" new creations of today.

    Partialy because writers tend to not stick around long enough to keep establishing or reinforcing new things, which leaves them at the mercy of following writers, most who will either go back to the well and just bring in classic things, or try to introduce THEIR new shiney toys, partialy because not many writers seem to have the patience anymore to establish things slowly and then let them bloom once they have a proper foundation (not that one can blame them with constant short runs, cancelations and relaunches).

    On top of that there is the problem that because of the circling nature of the Marvel Universe, nothing ever truely goes away. There are no spots which become vacant and can be filled with new creations, because the old are constantly aviable to be brought back.
    So new creations don't just have to fight with being compared to previous similar creations,they have to downright fight with these for relevance. Which is where the comparison to alien civilizations comes into play again. Because the Arraki don't have to compete with the Morlocks, Gene Nation or Neo. They compete with Skrulls, Kree, Inhumans and co. All which have stronger roots and foundations than the Arraki.

    And then there is Mars.
    One of the hidden rules of the Marvel Universe is that it needs to remain close enough to the real world that the reader can easily relate to the situations going on it. Which means super heros are never allowed to change and resolve problems or situations which are going on in the real world.
    Similar there might be hidden alien civilizations or human bases on planets in the sol system, but the overall status of these worlds need to remain close to what we currently have, simply because real life might affect them.

    So a hospital terraformed Mars, renamed after a public known civilization of ancient mutants can never last. Because the status quo of the Marvel Universe will require it to be an inhospital dust ball named Mars, with perhaps a hidden base or civilization on it for super hero adventures, again sooner than later.

    Anyway. These are SOME of the problems i see with the Arraki as new alien civilization in the Marvel Universe and why, like with the Neo before them, i don't think they have much staying power and a steep hill to climb to gain long term relevance with readers.

    Feel free to retain your enthusiam for them and what stories and roles they might have in the future, while i keep my fork ready to eat my own words in case i was completely off the mark with my assessment.
    Last edited by Grunty; 10-23-2021 at 08:39 PM.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    Well technically Cable was in his original cast… just the teen version. So now he’s got the OG adult version to play with. Which he did really well in the Cable: Reloaded one-shot.
    Absolutely!

  4. #109
    Incredible Member Lady Midnight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    Well technically Cable was in his original cast… just the teen version. So now he’s got the OG adult version to play with. Which he did really well in the Cable: Reloaded one-shot.
    ...And the Exterminators?
    Here's the thing;

    I don't care.

  5. #110
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneTitan View Post
    Some of the variant covers are giving some exciting art styles. I wish Hellions was sticking around. And shout out to Humberto Ramos for being consistent on Strange Academy. I don't think he's missed an issue in the entire run of the series so far.
    Correct... but that's because it's skipped a couple of months. If he can't draw it in time, they delay it instead of getting another artist.
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  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Correct... but that's because it's skipped a couple of months. If he can't draw it in time, they delay it instead of getting another artist.
    And I'm good with that...and thus far, that book is awesome!
    Give me consistent quality first and foremost.

  7. #112
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    I compare them to the Neo because the way i see them, they check the same boxes as far as their premise and the attempt at hyping them up goes.

    The Neo were introduced as ancient civilization of mutants, comming out of nowhere, with no previous hint of their existence, with a tribalistic society and focus on fighting and conflict, who had existed unknown to humanity and modern mutants for a long time, during which they evolved/progressed according to their environment, resulting in them being stronger and more powerfull than "normal" mutants, at least according to the writer's attempt to hype them up, describing them as to mutants what mutants are to (normal) humans.

    I think there was also a bit where Cable described them as famous and feared, respected even by Apocalypse in his future... which is a classic example of quickly deflating hype for new characters/factions.

    The Arraki are an ancient civilization of mutants, comming out of nowhere, with no previous hint of their existence, with a tribalistic society and focus on fighting and surviving, who had existed unknown to humanity and modern mutants for a long time, during which they evolved/progressed according to their environment, resulting in them being stronger and more powerfull than the "normal" modern day mutants, at least according to the writer's attempt to hype them up, having Wolverine get a vision by Saturnyne which shows them utterly beating the rest of humanity in a one sided quick battle.

    They even somehow have pirates (how there was anything to raid and pillage from their fellow mutants when they only had a single island besieged by a demon horde is beyond me) just like, if memory serves me right, the Neo had the pirates too.

    So that allready taints my perspective on them, since i can't help but feel they have all the same problems, disconnect to the marvel mutant's basic premise and the same awkward attempt at trying hype them up as the Neo did.

    As i mentioned elsewhere in the past, i feel that the primary domain and comfort zone of Marvel's mutants (as general concept and in the often cited role as stand ins for minority groups) lies in a modern day, urban and cosmopolitical status quo.

    Basicly being a fictional and super powered version of the "others among us" situation that the primary readership (people living in modern urban environments) can understand/identify/relate to from their own environment. Because most people living in this situation will know the "others" (people from different cultures/countries, different appearance, different sexuality, different religion) in their society, or they are actualy part of such a group themself.

    This is after all the situation, which all adaptions of the X-men to TV and cinema have focused on so far and which in turn has arguably shaped the perception of what the X-men and marvel mutants are primarily about.

    Yes the X-men can have wacky adventures in space, magic realms, other dimensions and so on. They are super heros after all. But sooner or later it's back to the struggle of mutants being the "others" in a reflection of our modern day earth, especialy in the industrial nations. Which is also why i see the whole current krakoa status quo as narrative dead end, because this is not what the marvel mutants are about and what most people (especialy non-comic reader and casual fans via cartoons, movies, toys and video games) associate with the situation of the marvel mutants in the X-men comics.

    However groups like the Arraki and Neo don't fit into this role. They are basicly stuck between being too much tied to humanity to stand on their own (still being defacto humans via their mutant nature), unlike alien or magic races, too big or widespread to be a small hidden village, but also being too disconected from modern day or even historical societies and events to feel relevant to the mutant commentary.

    Infact being transported to Mars and becomming a problem only the X-men need to bother with, further removes the influence or connections they could have had to humanity. Making them basicly just another alien species in the narrative of the Marvel universe and that's a much larger uphill battle to fight, than just being a new earth based faction or a new alien species in the cosmic marvel setting.

    Especialy when one is also bogged down by a long winded backstory which involves retcons of established characters and their motivations, knowledge about a magical realm which mainly is important for a niche X-men comic and the current X-men status quo which might end up extremely fleeting in the comming years.

    Arrako can't simply be explained as "hidden mutant civilization" like the Morlocks or even the Neo, because it has been established as part of a continuity heavy current status quo that also goes astray from the basic premise of the marvel mutants.

    So as far as i can see it, Arrako as new faction is at quite a disadvantage when it comes to the goal of becomming a fixture in the Marvel comics, compared to anything new which can simply be explained as "new faction yet unseen". Because Arrako got introduced as old faction comming back, without having a real foundation in the publishing history.

    It certainly doesn't help that in the current age of Marvel comics most new creations are also essentialy doomed to fade into obscurity quickly, to the point where even joke characters from the golden years (here refering to the times when the "classic" characters and storylines where created that still get referenced or primarily adepted to TV and cinema) are more likely to re-appear or even get a good story than the "this is the best thing ever you will love this!" new creations of today.

    Partialy because writers tend to not stick around long enough to keep establishing or reinforcing new things, which leaves them at the mercy of following writers, most who will either go back to the well and just bring in classic things, or try to introduce THEIR new shiney toys, partialy because not many writers seem to have the patience anymore to establish things slowly and then let them bloom once they have a proper foundation (not that one can blame them with constant short runs, cancelations and relaunches).

    On top of that there is the problem that because of the circling nature of the Marvel Universe, nothing ever truely goes away. There are no spots which become vacant and can be filled with new creations, because the old are constantly aviable to be brought back.
    So new creations don't just have to fight with being compared to previous similar creations,they have to downright fight with these for relevance. Which is where the comparison to alien civilizations comes into play again. Because the Arraki don't have to compete with the Morlocks, Gene Nation or Neo. They compete with Skrulls, Kree, Inhumans and co. All which have stronger roots and foundations than the Arraki.

    And then there is Mars.
    One of the hidden rules of the Marvel Universe is that it needs to remain close enough to the real world that the reader can easily relate to the situations going on it. Which means super heros are never allowed to change and resolve problems or situations which are going on in the real world.
    Similar there might be hidden alien civilizations or human bases on planets in the sol system, but the overall status of these worlds need to remain close to what we currently have, simply because real life might affect them.

    So a hospital terraformed Mars, renamed after a public known civilization of ancient mutants can never last. Because the status quo of the Marvel Universe will require it to be an inhospital dust ball named Mars, with perhaps a hidden base or civilization on it for super hero adventures, again sooner than later.

    Anyway. These are SOME of the problems i see with the Arraki as new alien civilization in the Marvel Universe and why, like with the Neo before them, i don't think they have much staying power and a steep hill to climb to gain long term relevance with readers.

    Feel free to retain your enthusiam for them and what stories and roles they might have in the future, while i keep my fork ready to eat my own words in case i was completely off the mark with my assessment.
    98% of what stated are very strong points, and tend to agree with the mentality that is established in the culture of comic making. This play out fairly consistent with what you're saying, and I think that's the sad part of it all. I grew up with comics where writers were able and willing to take chances and go out there with ideas that weren't mainstream. The Arrako concept can definitely be mined and used to create stories that can cross into a few different genres with good, imaginative writers. I think there was more support decades ago and now the culture's so odd.

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