Alec Baldwin Fires Prop Gun on Set, Killing Cinematographer

[JBatmanFan05]

I've been to more than a few film shoots and have never witnessed cast or crew behind bulletproof glass. I'm all for making that rule, or even better banning real guns from sets, but I don't think these statements represent all films.

I have never been to a shoot, so I certainly credit your point on this and can't deny it. Of course, I'm sure industry practices change over time (due to lawyers and insurers). That might be part of the discrepancy, among other factors/considerations. I wonder if all the armorers Hollywood Reporter talked to cited that specific one, or just some of them instead (which goes to support your point that not all shoots operate that way).

[CliffHanger2]

Micheal Jai's take.

[Gray Lensman]

So you've worked on a number of film sets then, and can tell us exactly what goes on there? Please do then. Because since deaths like this in the film industry are relatively rare, I would have figured that MOST films DO follow gun safety rules, rather than just winging it.

You seem to be arguing that Baldwin, presumably because he's a star, is exempt from following basic safety rules. Because an awful lot of Hollywood types, from actors to staff, have said otherwise.

And, as I said, it's almost certain Baldwin knew better. He had to have been subject to at least one safety briefing in his career, with the times he's had to fire guns, and a number of movies he's done have had him do just that. Hey, I like some of the guy's movies too, but that doesn't excuse such negligence. The armorer will justly get her punishment, but that doesn't excuse others involved, including Baldwin.

EDIT: Well, if the armorer's testimony can be substantiated, Alec is in DEEP trouble. That firearms training I was talking about above---according to her, she gave him that session, and he was not paying any attention, instead doing all sorts of things on his phone the whole time. So there goes any argument that it wasn't his responsibility to act like a normal, sensible human being around a weapon because...reasons. He WAS shown this, and close in time to his actions. He just chose to ignore it, (my guess is he'd had this session many times before on movies like The Shadow and Hunt For Red October among others, and got bored and thought he already knew it all).

All I had to do to know that the safety rules individuals follow aren't a thing on sets is to look at the finished product. Here's a scene with the camera looking straight down the gun barrel, here's a scene with two people pointing guns at each other, here's a scene where someone has their finger directly on the trigger despite not intending to shoot, and so on. Following many of the basic rules of firearms safety leads to a film where the audience doesn't buy in to the scenes because they would look like they were filmed by someone with no knowledge of camera work whatsoever. The safety rules Hollywood has are of a different sort, because so many of the standard ones can not apply in order to maintain suspension of disbelief for the finished product. When everyone follows them, they tend to work, since this is the first firearm fatality on set since Brandon Lee (presuming my memory is correct on that one).

Now if what the armorer says is true, then yes, Baldwin will be in big trouble, and deservedly so. And to be honest, any armorer should have the authority to ban an actor from handling firearms if they feel the person isn't taking stuff seriously enough. Even if that actor is getting top billing.

[Kirby101]

It is beyond me that no matter how many times it has been explained over and over again, some refuse to accept that real world or gun range rules have do not apply on a moviecset.
Any more than traffic laws apply to a movie car chase.

[numberthirty]

It is beyond me that no matter how many times it has been explained over and over again, some refuse to accept that real world or gun range rules have do not apply on a moviecset.
Any more than traffic laws apply to a movie car chase.

If someone is going to say something along the lines of this?

But the Screen Actors Guild says he is not responsible. But let's not listen to the industry's union of professionals.

Then, it's going to be odd when they are unwilling to listen to something like this...

Past that...

(6:30...)

The Three Basic Rules Of Gun Safety That We Teach Are:

- Always Keep Your Finger Off Of The Trigger Until You Are Ready To Fire.
- You Point The Gun In A Safe Direction Never At A Person.
- Always Treat The Gun As If It's Loaded.

So, again...

That is the head of a Former President of a union chapter saying that.

He even goes on to say that what has been described constitutes a "Major No-No..."

[Gray Lensman]

If someone is going to say something along the lines of this?



Then, it's going to be odd when they are unwilling to listen to something like this...

Then we had better arrest a LOT of people who didn't follow those rules on set. The fact that no one died is just that they got lucky, apparently. Pretty much every Clint Eastwood film, every ....you know, why don't we make this easy and go after every single actor who ever pointed a gun at someone else because that's what the script called for?

There's a reason why bringing up stuff that's obviously violated by a simple viewing of what's on the screen isn't convincing people. It's because nearly every single film or television show with guns breaks those rules by virtue of existing. Try coming up with something that doesn't make filming the scene impossible.

Now, what was brought up earlier about Baldwin not paying attention in the safety course the armorer gave? That's something that matters. That, more than anything else anyone has brought up, paints him as being responsible for what happened. It's just a matter of whether or not the testimony is considered credible by the court.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

It is beyond me that no matter how many times it has been explained over and over again, some refuse to accept that real world or gun range rules have do not apply on a moviecset.
Any more than traffic laws apply to a movie car chase.

Yeah. Watching Pulp Fiction hits different when you realize nearly everyone in that movie needs to be arrested and charged with gun safety violations.

[Gray Lensman]

Yeah. Watching Pulp Fiction hits different when you realize nearly everyone in that movie needs to be arrested and charged with gun safety violations.

We need to extradite Hugo Weaving for what he did while filming The Matrix. I'm pretty sure there's a scene where he puts his gun point blank against Keanu and pulls the trigger

[Kirby101]

Arrest Christian Bale and Angus Macfadyen NOW! They need to go to jail. They are violating EVERY gun safety rule!!

[inisideguy]

Arrest Christian Bale and Angus Macfadyen NOW! They need to go to jail. They are violating EVERY gun safety rule!!

I think everyone was arrested from this scene. Deer Hunter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCW9NsrV6VM

[Kirby101]

Clearly Robert Dinero never learned gun range rules about pointing a gun at someone



And yet never arrested.

[inisideguy]

Clearly Robert Dinero never learned gun range rules about pointing a gun at someone



And yet never arrested.

This entire topic is ridiculous. How is someone even supposed to debate people who think the firearm rules mean something on a set.

This is an ongoing topic forever on this site. A comic book site. People die all over the world in horrible ways. But this thing goes on and on. Anyone with a brain that doesn't think this is a political hit job is high.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

Is this considered a two for one or just a suicide attempt?

[numberthirty]

Someone who actually worked on the film saying that he makes sure to do a visual inspection along with six "Dry..." fires into the dirt. He also points out that the rounds should have inspected, and it should have been caught.

[Scott Taylor]

This entire topic is ridiculous. How is someone even supposed to debate people who think the firearm rules mean something on a set.

This is an ongoing topic forever on this site. A comic book site. People die all over the world in horrible ways. But this thing goes on and on. Anyone with a brain that doesn't think this is a political hit job is high.

This is also silly. Movie scenes are not safe just because "hey its a movie so its ok." Ever heard of Vic Morrow? Brandon Lee? Oh they were movies so its ok and everything was actually safe.

Whether its a hit job is irrelevant to the fact that someone died and gun safety is a real need on movie sets where they use guns that can fire. Right?