Will Scarlet Witch become the new Sorcerer Supreme?

[Iron Maiden]

I love how Doom uses his armor to analyze his opponents in that story. He's the only sorcerer in fiction I know that incorporates tech into his magic.

Can Magik and Clea even become sorcerer supreme of earth? Is it possible to be the sorcerer supreme of 2 different dimensions at the same time?

Yes, and I like how Doom tell thems he is shutting down his offensive weapons and his force field. He did use that his force field no avail against a demon in Astonishing Tales #8 so maybe he doubted it would work anyway. But he made good use of recording his onboard computer system to analyze the other contestants spellcasting to help him learn on the fly during the contest.

Looking back at that page from Triumph and Torment where the "call goes out to all practioners of sorcery", I wonder who the unnamed sorcerer from Atlantis would be?

[GenericUsername]

if it is given to Wanda it cannot be arbitrarily taken away, to make her look dumb or "overwhelmed" again (see: 'no more mutants')

That's definitely not true. Bendis managed to make Stephen look plenty dumb. Byrne too.

Originally it was Stephen that told Wanda having magic babies was fine. Stephen also used a form of chaos magic, then denied it's existence. But it still did exist. Then there was him getting back the SS title in the same way he lost it in New Avengers.

Writers can write any character dumb, overwhelmed or completely incomptetent. Smart characters are not immune to it either. See all the bs they've done to Tony Stark over the years. Powerful characters just become jobbed (Thor and Juggernaut).

Editors don't protect the characters, so no title in comics will.

[Iron Maiden]

That's definitely not true. Bendis managed to make Stephen look plenty dumb. Byrne too.

Originally it was Stephen that told Wanda having magic babies was fine. Stephen also used a form of chaos magic, then denied it's existence. But it still did exist. Then there was him getting back the SS title in the same way he lost it in New Avengers.

Writers can write any character dumb, overwhelmed or completely incomptetent. Smart characters are not immune to it either. See all the bs they've done to Tony Stark over the years. Powerful characters just become jobbed (Thor and Juggernaut).

Editors don't protect the characters, so no title in comics will.

This is just my opinion but I think Steve Englehart did the damage because I thought his whole idea of the Wanda and Vision having magical babies was dumb to begin with. Byrne's Darker Than Scarlet tried to fix it in a heavy handed way and it was left to Roy Thomas to finish things because IIRC Byrne suddenly left Marvel...again. I forgot what triggered that one. But I did think putting all the blame on Immortus helped a great deal to take the onus from Wanda at least. The only problem is along comes Bendis with Disassembled/HOM and he completely ignores it.

[Witchfan]

I want Wanda used more in comics. If making her Sorcerer Supreme would get her in more comics, than I am for it.

[GenericUsername]

This is just my opinion but I think Steve Englehart did the damage because I thought his whole idea of the Wanda and Vision having magical babies was dumb to begin with. Byrne's Darker Than Scarlet tried to fix it in a heavy handed way and it was left to Roy Thomas to finish things because IIRC Byrne suddenly left Marvel...again. I forgot what triggered that one. But I did think putting all the blame on Immortus helped a great deal to take the onus from Wanda at least. The only problem is along comes Bendis with Disassembled/HOM and he completely ignores it.

Magical babies is no more dumb than alt earth future babies or ones born of clay, blessed by the goddeses of Olympus. Comics always took some of their inspiration from ancient mythology. And some from science fiction. So Wanda marrying an Android and having magical babies did not stand out from how weird stories were in that era.

Byrne didn't try to fix anything. He hated the relationship, so he tore it apart in the most obscene way possible. It had to be cleaned up by writers immediately after he left the story.

He was not the one that brought Immortus into it. That was editor interference to start the clean up of Byrne's mess.

[Clea]

Magical babies is no more dumb than alt earth future babies or ones born of clay, blessed by the goddeses of Olympus. Comics always took some of their inspiration from ancient mythology. And some from science fiction. So Wanda marrying an Android and having magical babies did not stand out from how weird stories were in that era.

Byrne didn't try to fix anything. He hated the relationship, so he tore it apart in the most obscene way possible. It had to be cleaned up by writers immediately after he left the story.

He was not the one that brought Immortus into it. That was editor interference to start the clean up of Byrne's mess.

Wanda has been the victim of more than her fair share of crappy writing over the years. I'm not sure what Marvel's going to do with her in the future, but I don't see her becoming Sorcerer Supreme. I also don't think we need to see another tournament of sorcerers to determine the next Sorcerer Supreme. Strange was originally designated Sorcerer Supreme by the Ancient One back in Marvel Premiere back in the early 70s with no magical tournament involved. I like the notion of a tournament to identify the strongest magic users, but being Sorcerer Supreme is about more than just being the most powerful magic user.

[MaximoffTrash]

This is just my opinion but I think Steve Englehart did the damage because I thought his whole idea of the Wanda and Vision having magical babies was dumb to begin with. Byrne's Darker Than Scarlet tried to fix it in a heavy handed way and it was left to Roy Thomas to finish things because IIRC Byrne suddenly left Marvel...again. I forgot what triggered that one. But I did think putting all the blame on Immortus helped a great deal to take the onus from Wanda at least. The only problem is along comes Bendis with Disassembled/HOM and he completely ignores it.

Englehart's story is only dumb in the sense it's dumb romance of "love conquers biology", but again life created by magic is freaking common in MU.

Every second-gen gods/demons are basically Atum's energy poo shaped by mortals' stories/thoughts/ideas.
Thomas and William Maximoff are basically like that New Salem energy shaped by the wishes of their parents.
It's Byrne who made it look bad by making them "demon babies". Also Roy Thomas is like the OG Wanda/Vision shipper, he basically tried to salvage Byrne's crap and turn it again into something positive, like making Wanda regain hope for life after knowing there is actually a possibility for her to be happy.

If anything Roy Thomas and Englehart are closer in their position about Wanda having a healthy family dynamic.

[Iron Maiden]

Magical babies is no more dumb than alt earth future babies or ones born of clay, blessed by the goddeses of Olympus. Comics always took some of their inspiration from ancient mythology. And some from science fiction. So Wanda marrying an Android and having magical babies did not stand out from how weird stories were in that era.

Byrne didn't try to fix anything. He hated the relationship, so he tore it apart in the most obscene way possible. It had to be cleaned up by writers immediately after he left the story.

He was not the one that brought Immortus into it. That was editor interference to start the clean up of Byrne's mess.

Finally had some time to reread this but we do see Immortus make only a brief appearance in Byrne's WCA #55. His statement is vague but he appears to have plans for Wanda. Then when Byrne quits, we get two filler issues. It was Roy Thomas who added more detail to what Immortus was up in the conclusion to the arc since Byrne is gone after issue #56.



Byrne answered a question about what happened with WCA on his Byrne Robotics forum....

When you wrote AVENGERS WEST COAST was it your intention that Wanda Maximoff was always a disturbed young woman or was it all caused by the manipulations of Immortus?

JB: From the earliest days of her introduction in X-MEN, it was clear Stan and Jack intended Wanda to be "troubled", tho "disturbed" might be overstating it a bit. I used this, and her quest for anything even close to a "normal" life, as the basis for the storyline in which I revealed her twins were the result of what happens when a probability-shifting mutant experiences a hysterical pregnancy. (7/14/2005)

Then he has a follow up...

What was the (presumably editorial) disagreement that caused such a sudden departure from the book?

JB: The departure was as sudden as it was for a simple reason: a bone-head EiC who did not pay attention. Several months before the Immortus storyline got started, we writers and editors were summoned to the EiC's office for the purpose of concocting the latest . . . shudder. . . Summer Crossover. As I had a storyline coming up in AWC that would be pretty cosmic and wide reaching, I offered it as the basis for the Crossover. The EiC said no, he didn't want to do that for the Crossover. So Howard Mackie (AWC Editor) and I returned to our jobs on the book, and went ahead with the story as planned. One month before we got to the Big Reveal, as it were, the EiC suddenly noticed we were doing the storyline he had "rejected". He ordered us to change it, immediately. Howard protested -- the EiC had not said we could not do the storyline, only that he did not want to use it for the Crossover. Finally the EiC pulled rank -- we Must change our story, as we did not have "permission" to do it. (Permission was needed only if stories caused major changes to characters or continuity. This did neither.) Since there was nothing I could do with all my months setup, other than the story as planned, I quit in protest, with Howard's support.

[Iron Maiden]

Englehart's story is only dumb in the sense it's dumb romance of "love conquers biology", but again life created by magic is freaking common in MU.

Every second-gen gods/demons are basically Atum's energy poo shaped by mortals' stories/thoughts/ideas.
Thomas and William Maximoff are basically like that New Salem energy shaped by the wishes of their parents.
It's Byrne who made it look bad by making them "demon babies". Also Roy Thomas is like the OG Wanda/Vision shipper, he basically tried to salvage Byrne's crap and turn it again into something positive, like making Wanda regain hope for life after knowing there is actually a possibility for her to be happy.

If anything Roy Thomas and Englehart are closer in their position about Wanda having a healthy family dynamic.

Yes I would agree about that. This occurs when Roy Thomas returns to Marvel after going over to DC for a while. At this point he is only writing and not editing. We can surmise that he was just told to go with what came before but as I mentioned, he is the one that goes into detail about what Immortus was up to and then how the Timekeepers deal with him. Byrne left no details on Immortus plans for Wanda.

I still don't like the magical babies concept in this case. Why not just have Wanda and Vision adopt and then we could have had a blended family? Isn't there some extra confusion that sprouted out of Tommy and Billy's situation and they had another set of parents? Maybe this was in Young Avengers? After all, Wanda was MIA for quite a few years in the comics and somebody had to have custody of Billy and Tommy

[MaximoffTrash]

Yes I would agree about that. This occurs when Roy Thomas returns to Marvel after going over to DC for a while. At this point he is only writing and not editing. We can surmise that he was just told to go with what came before but as I mentioned, he is the one that goes into detail about what Immortus was up to and then how the Timekeepers deal with him. Byrne left no details on what Immortus was up to.

I still don't like the magical babies concept in this case. Why not just have Wanda and Vision adopt and then we could have had a blended family? Isn't there some extra confusion that sprouted out of Tommy and Billy's situation and they had another set of parents? Maybe this was in Young Avengers?

I am actually fine with both. They simply touches on different aspect of the character.
Wanda herself is raised by foster parents, and she got that whole theme of chosen family over biological ones, which makes it natural for her and Vision to adopt kids in that perspective.(Also I would actually like Wanda/Vision be somewhat like Yennefer/Geralt from Witcher lol.)
On the other hand, magic babies bleeds more into the fantastical elements of Wanda and Vision's desire to have "family".(Which Ultron also kinda have.) Which probably has more potential for drama.(In a positive sense, like the real life couples who want to have kids but can't, thus they seek medical methods etc.)

Billy and Tommy's new parents are simply Heinberg wanting to bring back the characters, and his method is basically reincarnation, thus they have the same souls but different biological family. But again Heinberg's Vision doesn't exactly match Englehart, which can be seen in the hints about Thomas/William's powers in the 80s.(Also AUs like the Last Avengers Story, basically Thomas was meant to be the mage while Williams was meant to be the "ghost".)

[GenericUsername]

Finally had some time to reread this but we do see Immortus make only a brief appearance in Byrne's WCA #55. His statement is vague but he appears to have plans for Wanda. Then when Byrne quits, we get two filler issues. It was Roy Thomas who added more detail to what Immortus was up in the conclusion to the arc since Byrne is gone after issue #56.



Byrne answered a question about what happened with WCA on his Byrne Robotics forum....



Then he has a follow up...

It's clear from his statements that he had no idea about Wanda. Because there was no indication that Jack and Stan were making her troubled. This also leaves out his distate for the relationship. It was partially that and that he had seemingly a fetish for good girl gone bad stories.

I think the only reason he found her troubled was his own bias against who she married.

[GenericUsername]

Yes I would agree about that. This occurs when Roy Thomas returns to Marvel after going over to DC for a while. At this point he is only writing and not editing. We can surmise that he was just told to go with what came before but as I mentioned, he is the one that goes into detail about what Immortus was up to and then how the Timekeepers deal with him. Byrne left no details on Immortus plans for Wanda.

I still don't like the magical babies concept in this case. Why not just have Wanda and Vision adopt and then we could have had a blended family? Isn't there some extra confusion that sprouted out of Tommy and Billy's situation and they had another set of parents? Maybe this was in Young Avengers? After all, Wanda was MIA for quite a few years in the comics and somebody had to have custody of Billy and Tommy

What Wanda did initially was no different than medically induced pregnancy. It was just magic instead.

[GenericUsername]

Wanda has been the victim of more than her fair share of crappy writing over the years. I'm not sure what Marvel's going to do with her in the future, but I don't see her becoming Sorcerer Supreme. I also don't think we need to see another tournament of sorcerers to determine the next Sorcerer Supreme. Strange was originally designated Sorcerer Supreme by the Ancient One back in Marvel Premiere back in the early 70s with no magical tournament involved. I like the notion of a tournament to identify the strongest magic users, but being Sorcerer Supreme is about more than just being the most powerful magic user.

Yep, like I said before, Wanda doesn't need the title. And it being pulled from Stephen is getting annoying. Last thing I want is my fave taking another fave out of the books. I know what that is like to have a favorite character pulled from comics. It's not fun.