Why is it so hard to really do anything good with Tim Drake now a days?

[witchboy]

I'd prefer to let Tim be Robin and Damien can get a new code name. But if Tim stays Red Robin, that can be ok too. He just needs his own title, regular guest appearances in Bat books and a team spot on Young Justice or Titans. His new relationship needs exploring, although I'm still not giving up the hope for Conner as a love interest for him eventually.
It's hard to do much with him in a rotating anthology book.
I don't think him coming out was a publicity stunt. I think it was the vision of the author and lower editors and it took everyone by surprise how much attention it got. They didn't promote it before hand. Tim wasn't even on the cover of the issue.

[dietrich]

I'd prefer to let Tim be Robin and Damien can get a new code name. But if Tim stays Red Robin, that can be ok too. He just needs his own title, regular guest appearances in Bat books and a team spot on Young Justice or Titans. His new relationship needs exploring, although I'm still not giving up the hope for Conner as a love interest for him eventually.
It's hard to do much with him in a rotating anthology book.
I don't think him coming out was a publicity stunt. I think it was the vision of the author and lower editors and it took everyone by surprise how much attention it got. They didn't promote it before hand. Tim wasn't even on the cover of the issue.

That's a lot of panel space dedicated to one character. Tim doesn't need all that when there are so many DC characters without homes. Tim has had more than 30 years to secure a fanbase and a character shouldn't need that much panel space to show that something good can still be done with them.

A well established mantle shouldn't have to carry a struggling character. A character should add something to the established mantle. Tim was Robin for decades. He added to the Robin lore it's time he moves on. He isn't adding anything new or fresh to the lore now. He is coasting.

Coming out wasn't a PR stunt but it was a gimmick. This isn't like Jon where it was already an idea in the works behind the scene even before the current Action writer got the job.

Like his race change in Titans I believe it was made in hopes of making him more appealing. Adding features to an existing but struggling or outdated model to make it more appealing to current market trends.

It's a well established marketing technique that's been around since for ever. These characters are products at the end of the day.

Tim needs to move away from Robin and the name. He needs to be Nightwinged or Red Hooded. Red robin was a good name at 1st but there's been too much back and forth with the Robin/Red Robin what is his role that the character's association with Robin is now hurting the character.

What to call him/his role has become more of a talking point than the character himself. DC has to change the discourse. Focus on reminding readers why he is a great character. Focus on foxing the character and giving him strong stories and sorting out his back story. I don't know what his current age is or which of his past is still canon. Did new 52 TT happen? Did Tim go to Pride? Where does he live? What does he do when not in Bludheaven with Dick? I know he's not with Bruce so what is he doing.

Damian is 13 and a minor. he is also Robin. He doesn't need a new name. Tim is the one who needs to find a new name. he was Robin for 30 years. He is done time to grow like the other Robins.


Why is it so hard to really do anything good with tim Drake?

I'd prefer to let Tim be Robin and Damien can get a new code name

That line is why DC can't seen to do anything good with tim. Fans and some with influence behind the scenes clinging to nostalgia rejecting the current status quo.

RR was a decent book and was a good thing that DC did with tim but fans fought against it. Damian was only supposed to die and the mantle return to Tim but thing's changed and some are yet to accept that change.

[witchboy]

I disagree that Tim being gay is a gimmick. I believe that is genuinely the story the writer wanted to tell, and also something that was discussed by both writers, artists and fans for the character for most of his history.

[dietrich]

I disagree that Tim being gay is a gimmick. I believe that is genuinely the story the writer wanted to tell, and also something that was discussed by both writers, artists and fans for the character for most of his history.

Most of his history was written by Chuck Dixon. He established and wrote the stories that defined Tim Drake's character. I doubt that Dixon ever wrote him as queer coded. He said that he didn't. The writer of the story didn't know much about Tim when she was approached for FS. I agree that it was discussed. I believe it was the story the writer wanted to tell but that doesn't stop it being a gimmick.

Businesses decisions are made with money in mind. DC didn't agree to do it because they care about representation. They care about increasing the money they can make with Tim a character they have been struggling with.

Gimmick doesn't mean bad. A gimmick is a selling point.

[witchboy]

Most of his history was written by Chuck Dixon. He established and wrote the stories that defined Tim Drake's character. I doubt that Dixon ever wrote him as queer coded. He said that he didn't. The writer of the story didn't know much about Tim when she was approached for FS. I agree that it was discussed. I believe it was the story the writer wanted to tell but that doesn't stop it being a gimmick.

Businesses decisions are made with money in mind. DC didn't agree to do it because they care about representation. They care about increasing the money they can make with Tim a character they have been struggling with.

Gimmick doesn't mean bad. A gimmick is a selling point.

Gimmick does have a negative connotation to it. To me, this feels like finally writing Tim's sexuality with honesty. It could've been done better. Ending his relationship with Steph off panel was a terrible way to begin this.
Do you consider Jon Kent coming out also a gimmick?

[dietrich]

Gimmick does have a negative connotation to it. To me, this feels like finally writing Tim's sexuality with honesty. It could've been done better. Ending his relationship with Steph off panel was a terrible way to begin this.
Do you consider Jon Kent coming out also a gimmick?

Yes I do.

Meh. Couples break up. Even representation on all media is far more important than readers personal ships. It's sad to see so many of the comments focusing on the fact that their fav ship is no more/might now never happen and not on the fact that such big pop culture Icons Superman and Robin are out.

They could have handled the announcements better. Spaced them apart and not have Jon come out so soon after Tim.

That kind of took the buzz away from Tim's reveal.

[witchboy]

Yes I do.

Meh. Couples break up. Even representation on all media is far more important than readers personal ships. It's sad to see so many of the comments focusing on the fact that their fav ship is no more/might now never happen and not on the fact that such big pop culture Icons Superman and Robin are out.

They could have handled the announcements better. Spaced them apart and not have Jon come out so soon after Tim.

That kind of took the buzz away from Tim's reveal.

I think that they came out so close together just shows that upper editorial is asleep at the wheel. I’m still bewildered they didn’t even put Tim on the cover of the issue when he came out. To me that shows a lack of planning and awareness.
I am thrilled they came out. But I shipped Tim and Kon for around 15 years, I’m going to have thoughts on what this means for that potential couple.

[exile001]

I’m still bewildered they didn’t even put Tim on the cover of the issue when he came out. To me that shows a lack of planning and awareness.

I wondered if maybe they were hedging their bets a little and gauging the reaction before Jon?

[Rac7d*]

I'd prefer to let Tim be Robin and Damien can get a new code name

That line is why DC can't seen to do anything good with tim. Fans and some with influence behind the scenes clinging to nostalgia rejecting the current status quo.

Tim is at the very least 18 almost 20. Around the time Dick took on his own idenity. He cannot go back to being robin while a growing Damian ascends to a new role/identity that would be worse

[witchboy]

I wondered if maybe they were hedging their bets a little and gauging the reaction before Jon?

I think the comics with Jon coming out were being worked on before Tim’s coming out hit the stands.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

Tim is at the very least 18 almost 20. Around the time Dick took on his own idenity. He cannot go back to being robin while a growing Damian ascends to a new role/identity that would be worse

He's 16 at most 17.

[Castiel]

Gimmick does have a negative connotation to it. To me, this feels like finally writing Tim's sexuality with honesty. It could've been done better. Ending his relationship with Steph off panel was a terrible way to begin this.
Do you consider Jon Kent coming out also a gimmick?

It's sad but true they are not writing him as bisexual because he was queer coded from the beginning and it's the same with Jon. Being a minority or in this case gay is like the new fad and that's tragically all writers care about because they think it makes them more money or whatever. If "representation" was not big right now this wouldn't be happening and the reason they wrote him as a bisexual is to use it as a safety hatch. In a few years we'll probably have them written as straight again and nobody will even remember this part of their history.

[ZuLuLu]

I'd prefer to let Tim be Robin and Damien can get a new code name

If Damien didn't have a successful Robin book right now I would have liked the name Black Ronin for him, I feel like it would suit his aesthetic and have Tim be Robin.

While I feel like Tim needs a new name (Wingman) I think right now as a character he needs to be reestablished so going back to basics is what is best for the character.

[Castiel]

If Damien didn't have a successful Robin book right now I would have liked the name Black Ronin for him, I feel like it would suit his aesthetic and have Tim be Robin.

While I feel like Tim needs a new name (Wingman) I think right now as a character he needs to be reestablished so going back to basics is what is best for the character.

Or Tim can be Red Robin and Damien can be Black Robin and together they can The Robins, now that's a good comic title.

[Aahz]

Most of his history was written by Chuck Dixon. He established and wrote the stories that defined Tim Drake's character. I doubt that Dixon ever wrote him as queer coded. He said that he didn't.

Thing is the examples that are usually brought up for Tim being LGBT are usually from comics from the mid to late 2000s, and most of the writers from that time had only pretty short runs on the character (sometimes only a year or so) and/or were not writing his main book but something Teen Titans.