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  1. #31
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    When was the last time we saw a superhero struggle to pay their bills or rent? And get evicted? I think this was quite common in daily issues of Spider man decades ago.

    Spider man wasn't relatable because he was a white nerd its because of the human struggle
    With most Mutants and Avengers living off Emma and Tonys bosom a lot of their struggles are already unrelatable
    Last edited by ExodusCloak; 10-25-2021 at 11:23 AM.

  2. #32
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    Wasn't JDW the one who said that Cyclops was 29yo, His opinions are worthless. I can't believe he is still the main X editor. As long as he is there the X line will not improve.

  3. #33
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rift View Post
    Pride sold like 60k, and Identity sold about 40k. They're also doing a second round this year.
    Not bad-ish, for a niche product...So there is some interest.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Exactatiously.

    That should never be the first selling point of any character new or old.

    Plus...
    It's one thing to develop a character(s) to embrace the current social (diversity, for example) mindset in the hope that it will appeal to a particular subset of your readers but...you first have to know if that subset is actually 1) buying/reading comics and 2) if they are, are they interested in that character.
    Further to that point...I will ask...just how well did their Voices books sell? And did they meet the sales or reader interest expectations?
    Not as well as the original/big characters for the big 2 from what I've seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sin Nick View Post
    I'm black, my favorite character in comics has always been this grumpy ass white dude named Wolverine. I don't relate to him nor Spider-Man(or any other character for that matter). I don't know what X-Men's target audience is currently... Twitter perhaps? Marvel comics in general seem to lack direction these days and seem more focused on not upsetting those cancel culture folks.
    This, also why.Twitter people ain't buying the comics anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rift View Post
    Pride sold like 60k, and Identity sold about 40k. They're also doing a second round this year.
    Is that good, also how well do "diverse and progressive" solos sell? One-shots w/ a lot of marketing, and big issues like the Son of Kal-El(5 IIRC)one selling bog doesn't mean much if it's not sustainable.Having people buy one issue is cool but you need consistent support.

    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    When was the last time we saw a superhero struggle to pay their bills or rent? And get evicted? I think this was quite common in daily issues of Spider man decades ago.

    Spider man wasn't relatable because he was a white nerd its because of the human struggle
    With most Mutants and Avengers living off Emma and Tonys bosom a lot of their struggles are already unrelatable
    Spider-man is currently behind on rent, has a broken wall(like the entire thing got blown off) in his apartment and has roommates on top(not MJ).

    Also facts for the second half

  5. #35
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milici View Post
    Wasn't JDW the one who said that Cyclops was 29yo, His opinions are worthless. I can't believe he is still the main X editor. As long as he is there the X line will not improve.
    Yep. He said all of the O5 are in their late-20s AT THE OLDEST. It's ridiculous.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!

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  6. #36
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    While I may not agree with certain ideas...under his tenure, the X-line have certainly improved from what came immediately before and previous years. (Else I would not be reading and enjoying this era, as I do).
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    While I may not agree with certain ideas...under his tenure, the X-line have certainly improved from what came immediately before and previous years. (Else I would not be reading and enjoying this era, as I do).
    But that was Hickman who did that...

    Take out Hickman and 90% of the good buzz the books had is gone.

  8. #38
    Extraordinary Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Naruto has two kids and went from 12 to his 30s. In most cases children do not buy comics or get into them unless someone else is providing information on it but people can keep trying to sell to a denomination that has no money. The point is to get the people buying excited so they will share with their kids and their kids share and then they find what speaks to them but going into it thinking so strigantlly defeats the purpose of what he was trying to say. "I'm married but i don't want me being married to influence the stories." But on the flip the same assumptions are being made in " Other people won't get the idea of peter being married" But kids have parents and some kids look up to them so they may enjoy seeing a married unit. So either way he is letting his own bias dictate.
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  9. #39
    Astonishing Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Naruto has two kids and went from 12 to his 30s. In most cases children do not buy comics or get into them unless someone else is providing information on it but people can keep trying to sell to a denomination that has no money. The point is to get the people buying excited so they will share with their kids and their kids share and then they find what speaks to them but going into it thinking so strigantlly defeats the purpose of what he was trying to say. "I'm married but i don't want me being married to influence the stories." But on the flip the same assumptions are being made in " Other people won't get the idea of peter being married" But kids have parents and some kids look up to them so they may enjoy seeing a married unit. So either way he is letting his own bias dictate.
    Conversely, some people don't have parents or don't have great relationships with them, and can get something out of seeing those relationships that they didn't have portrayed positively on the page. The options are limitless, and JDW's POV is exceptionally limited.

  10. #40
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    The older readers get the more discerning they become especially when it comes to spending money.

    Comic reading is not a cheap hobby; so publishers gotta get the dummies with tons of disposable cash and those said dummies - the young'uns, the whippersnappers, bugger eaters, and the crotchlings.

    And the powers that be have deigned that they cannot possibly enjoy a story unless the main character 100% is like them.

    I mean they looked at all of the fictional characters throughout history and they thought nah these idiots cannot possibly put themselves in their shoes; so lets make characters the most generic milquetoast characters as possible.

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    Conversely, some people don't have parents or don't have great relationships with them, and can get something out of seeing those relationships that they didn't have portrayed positively on the page. The options are limitless, and JDW's POV is exceptionally limited.
    Exactly. 1000% agree.

    edit: People need to think more in patterns of growth rather than immediate revenue. Especially a company with the luxury disney affords marvel. If Pete and MJ weren't one more dayed in 2007 they may have a kid of there own today 14 years later who like real people could have been with a nanny, not necessarily affecting the stories which imo it feels to me like most writers try to right family situations in the worst way so we don't like them or want them because not every family is messed up. Not every kid is an emo or a jerk or super depressed all the time or a dick to their parents. So in a world where super heroes need something to fight for i never got how the argument that a family ages them too much or makes them less interesting is a thing.

    (i've had some honey jack so this may be more rambly than i think.) lol

    edit 2: and to my original point, if peter and mj had a kid today that was 14 or whatever then that is an audience that not only would the parent be more than happy to present the child with i could imagine a sort of attachment and fondness being applied to that character and the time. May Day could have been hanging out with Frank and Val and Benjy's new kids and maybe just maybe Peter could have still been this dramatic wise guy who actually has a nice peace of the pie to go home to and fight for.
    Last edited by jwatson; 10-25-2021 at 05:08 PM. Reason: told ya
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  12. #42
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    Conversely, some people don't have parents or don't have great relationships with them, and can get something out of seeing those relationships that they didn't have portrayed positively on the page. The options are limitless, and JDW's POV is exceptionally limited.
    Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. It's really putting people into these stereotypical boxes by age that are so old fashioned.

    There are these implicit assumptions that:

    A. People over 30 must look old, act old, be out of shape and have no interests outside their safe mundane jobs and family. It doesn't even line up with the actors playing these roles.

    B. That mutants and superheroes are somehow beholden to the age constraints and rules of regular humans.

    C. That aging requires characters to quit their superhero roles if they want to get married or have children. Basically saying there is no way a loving responsible adult would have a dangerous job and choose to have a child. Sorry military personnel, police, firefighters ... no kids for you!

    D. That people only want to read either a direct self insert or only want a personal escapist fantasy so they can pretend they're still perpetually 20. No room for anything else.

    E. Can't imagine roles for superheros in their 30s, 40s, 50s ... God forbid 60s. Yet we repeatedly get "Old Man/Old Woman ____" stories about just that scenario somehow?

    F. Ignore the fact that fans LOVE superhero families like BatFam, SpiderFam, the convoluted Summers-Grey mess, and the Wolverine fam.

    Frustrating ...

    I like reading stories about younger characters and reliving that time of life with all the drama and intensity and idealism and energy. But I'd also love the complications and contractions that come with older characters who have conflicts and competing interests.

  13. #43
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RamaBird View Post
    But that was Hickman who did that...

    Take out Hickman and 90% of the good buzz the books had is gone.
    It may have been HiX-Man's awesome idea but he still needs an Editor/editors to make sure the gears are oiled and working efficiently and properly.
    Despite the designation, an editor doesn't only just "edit".
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 10-25-2021 at 05:05 PM.
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  14. #44
    Extraordinary Member jwatson's Avatar
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    I don't know when i think of editor i think of the kind of guy that is going to tell me. "No we can't backtrack because Johnny just dealt with growing a bit in a specific story that was deep and compelling. can you adjust your premise to fit where he is now, i think the basic idea is an interesting start. Let me give you the issues i'm referring to." No one can read every FF story but i think an editor should have.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

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  15. #45
    LET JEAN GREY BE FREE! Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Outside of alternate universe titles, the Big 2 heroes should remain in their primes. I don't want to read about Jean or Jubilee not doing something because they have babies.

    Marvel has that "Old Man" universe they are building. Send all the people that want the characters to be 35+ in that direction.

    Keep the main heroes as highly-experienced 27-year-olds at the most. Competent, but still young.

    As for whose still buying comics, it is mostly people who have been buying for decades, but they don't want to read about life insurance policies and babies either.
    "Yes, it was a kind of adultery, but at the same time Jean wasn't being his wife anymore. I just felt that the spark between them had died out and it was time to give Scott someone else."
    -Grant Morrison on how it was Jean's fault Scott cheated.

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