Is. Dave Chappelle a comedian or something else?

[thwhtGuardian]

I'm old enough to remember when progressives were all about "I disagree with what you say, but I defend to the death your right to say it" and "marketplace of ideas."

Neither of those things is in anyway shape or form incompatible with what is going on...Dave Chappelle is very much free to say what ever he wants with out ever having to fear the threat of jail...but that doesn't mean he's free from criticism of what he says.

And the marketplace of ideas? That's what's happening as we speak, Dave (and others) are learning what the market will bear which is incredibly capitalistic.

[thwhtGuardian]

I can't tell if you're being ignorant or disingenuous but the actual audience loved the show. Good ratings and a high RT score from the public. The "criticism" is coming from a small subset of people who need to chill out and develop a sense of humor.

I mean, if it was only a small minority of the audience that was upset why would he be dis-invited to so many film festivals? Why would studious shut their doors to him?

[Wandering_Wand]

What about a storyteller that we always imagine? A modern day Homer?

Definitely a bit of both. Most comedians are.

Exactly this.

The whole conservative push back on these kinds of issues is laughable. Cancel Culture is a bad thing? I thought conservatives were all about personal freedoms? Because that's all that's happening here with Chappelle and other such cases; celebrities whether they be actors, musicians or stand up comedians are free to say what ever they like and nobody is going to put them in jail for it. That's what the freedom of speech protects...but it doesn't protect them from criticism and rightly so because that would be limiting other people's freedom of speech...which certainly isn't what conservatives want right?

Do you realize that cancel culture as it has been and currently is actually does prohibit people from speaking their minds? Do you know why? Because when the woke cancel mob on Twitter or wherever wants to "Rheeeeee!" about an opinion they don't like, controversial or not, they coordinate and then attack these people directly going as far as death threats to killing off these people's ways of living. Oddly, Dave mentions that in his special The Closer - when you take away a person's livelihood, it's akin to killing them. I agree.

Cancel culture is bad. It may have started out with good intentions, but there's a saying about those. I don't think it's a controversial take for me to reach out with an olive branch to you and say "hey, I think cancel culture has gone too far now, time to reel it in and let people get back to living."

If you disagree with that, then there is no further need for discussion because one side (yours) is clearly not willing to negotiate or accept ideas/thoughts/opinions outside of what you think is acceptable, whereas I am the opposite.

People on the right are becoming more liberal as the left continues its march to totalitarianism. Maybe you can't see it because you're on that side, but as someone who doesn't exactly describe themselves as "right" and is more of a spectator in all of this, I can see the window moving.

I'm old enough to remember when progressives were all about "I disagree with what you say, but I defend to the death your right to say it" and "marketplace of ideas."

Aye, we are no longer there. The divisions that are currently occurring are effectively irreconcilable at this going rate. Back in the early 2000s when I was on Internet boards, you used to be able to have decent conversations that would only get mildly heated. Nowadays, what we're having here is an anomaly in that there hasn't been name calling [yet] or bans or canceled threads. We'll see how long it can continue.


To finish with the subject at hand, I watched The Closer. It was good comedy but also had quite a bit of sincerity from Dave. I wish him the best and don't find anything he said controversial. People need to try getting off social media and living their lives a little so they can stop finding things to be perpetual victims of. It's unhealthy and reaches a point where some people need to consider mental health options.

[Mark Trail]

I mean, if it was only a small minority of the audience that was upset why would he be dis-invited to so many film festivals?

Because that small minority holds outsized power in Hollywood. Citing again, the RT score, the audience loved it but professional critics didn't. They're part of the small minority with outsized power. But I'm sure you already knew that.

[Wandering_Wand]

Neither of those things is in anyway shape or form incompatible with what is going on...Dave Chappelle is very much free to say what ever he wants with out ever having to fear the threat of jail...but that doesn't mean he's free from criticism of what he says.

And the marketplace of ideas? That's what's happening as we speak, Dave (and others) are learning what the market will bear which is incredibly capitalistic.

I think this is being too simplistic and I find it funny that this is becoming part of the common narrative with the woke/left, that is, to use the idea and concept of the free market and capitalism in these examples. I think we all know deep down that what we're seeing is a form of bullying and coordinated attacks that are holding institutions (academia, corporations, gov't.) by the proverbial balls over mere opinions. "Dissenting" thought is being completely shut down, that is what is happening. A marketplace of ideas doesn't necessarily shut things down but dissuade. Those are not the same.

What you are effectively saying is that if I go and get a group of 10 people to take over a local Farmer's Market because we believe our objectives are more noble than the people selling their provisions and they hold different opinions than ours, we're justified because, well, we're part of the market too, right?

Perhaps a crude example, but it's the one that came to my mind. There is no balance within the woke/cancel mob - it's straight pedal to the metal "our way or the highway" and you are trying to say "ah, it's capitalism, babay! You people [who don't think like we do] should be loving this!"

-Respectfully

[Username taken]

He's a comedian doing commentary on society. His weapon is humor. It has been a thing since at least Lenny Bruce.
Then there was George Carlin and in the 80s it was Richard Pryor, Dice Clay, Eddie Murphy and even Bill Cosby.

Dave Chappelle is just one in a long proud tradition of comedians giving commentary as humor.

This basically.

[Fridays]

He is a comedian and something else. I watched The Closer because I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. Dave is a great comic, however the skit was more TED Talk than stand up comedy.

[Username taken]

Neither of those things is in anyway shape or form incompatible with what is going on...Dave Chappelle is very much free to say what ever he wants with out ever having to fear the threat of jail...but that doesn't mean he's free from criticism of what he says.

And the marketplace of ideas? That's what's happening as we speak, Dave (and others) are learning what the market will bear which is incredibly capitalistic.

This basically again.

[thwhtGuardian]

Definitely a bit of both. Most comedians are.



Do you realize that cancel culture as it has been and currently is actually does prohibit people from speaking their minds? Do you know why? Because when the woke cancel mob on Twitter or wherever wants to "Rheeeeee!" about an opinion they don't like, controversial or not, they coordinate and then attack these people directly going as far as death threats to killing off these people's ways of living. Oddly, Dave mentions that in his special The Closer - when you take away a person's livelihood, it's akin to killing them. I agree.

Cancel culture is bad. It may have started out with good intentions, but there's a saying about those. I don't think it's a controversial take for me to reach out with an olive branch to you and say "hey, I think cancel culture has gone too far now, time to reel it in and let people get back to living."

If you disagree with that, then there is no further need for discussion because one side (yours) is clearly not willing to negotiate or accept ideas/thoughts/opinions outside of what you think is acceptable, whereas I am the opposite.

People on the right are becoming more liberal as the left continues its march to totalitarianism. Maybe you can't see it because you're on that side, but as someone who doesn't exactly describe themselves as "right" and is more of a spectator in all of this, I can see the window moving.



Aye, we are no longer there. The divisions that are currently occurring are effectively irreconcilable at this going rate. Back in the early 2000s when I was on Internet boards, you used to be able to have decent conversations that would only get mildly heated. Nowadays, what we're having here is an anomaly in that there hasn't been name calling [yet] or bans or canceled threads. We'll see how long it can continue.


To finish with the subject at hand, I watched The Closer. It was good comedy but also had quite a bit of sincerity from Dave. I wish him the best and don't find anything he said controversial. People need to try getting off social media and living their lives a little so they can stop finding things to be perpetual victims of. It's unhealthy and reaches a point where some people need to consider mental health options.

...taking away someone's livelihood isn't akin to killing them...

[AndrewCrossett]

They're part of the small minority with outsized power.

Minorities with outsized power is the American way nowadays, isn't it?

Consumers of media have the right to express their opinions about material they like or don't like, and to vote with their eyeballs and their dollars. Always have, always will. The corporations that facilitate that media will respond to that reaction via programming decisions. Always have, always will. The consumers, on every side, will hold those corporations to account for said programming decisions... and so on. This is nothing new.

Transphobia (what Chappelle is justly accused of) is considered morally wrong by a very large sector of the population today. People will vehemently fight against what they see as morally wrong. There's no way Chappelle went on a stage in 2021 and said those things without knowing the reaction he would get. In fact, he was counting on it. Like I said... he made his choice, and he took his consequences, whatever those may prove to be in the long run. No doubt people who find transphobia funny will still flock to listen to him, and media companies will flock to stay away from him. But nobody owes him a platform or a livelihood. Those things are up to him and the choices he makes.

There is a war brewing in this country between freedom-supremacists and justice-supremacists. It will become a shooting war soon... that's inevitable. All that hate has nowhere else to go. We'll all long for the days when flamewars didn't involve literal flames.

[thwhtGuardian]

Because that small minority holds outsized power in Hollywood. Citing again, the RT score, the audience loved it but professional critics didn't. They're part of the small minority with outsized power. But I'm sure you already knew that.

Oh come on, you're trying to tell me all those execs and studio heads are a bunch of idiots? C'mon, pull the other one why don't you. Those guys live and die by numbers, it's what they're good at and if they thought they could make a buck on something they would. But sure, they're kowtowing to a minority.

[Immortal Weapon]

I mean, if it was only a small minority of the audience that was upset why would he be dis-invited to so many film festivals? Why would studious shut their doors to him?

Because they want to avoid getting sucked into the controversy. They are not taking no moral stance. They wanted that film before the Closer dropped and Dave has an alleged history with Transphobia. He's doing a 10 show tour next month and will be distributing his show in those shows and they've have sold out. I will have to quick to try to get tickets when tickets for the New York show go on sale.

[Wandering_Wand]

...taking away someone's livelihood isn't akin to killing them...

I understand, and here is where we can both respectfully move along for the sake of the greater conversation. To be honest, this can become a very tricky conversation, one in which would require quite a bit of context and feedback. Lots of variables are at hand for this and I'm not sure I care to begin as it will likely cause an increase in the conversation's temperature and time...

People have a right to declare their opinions any way they choose. People have a right to defend and counter whatever they want. People can petition corporations, etc. but I think it's most important to understand there probably needs to be a line drawn at some point and a re-assessment. Otherwise, the snowball grows and grows and grows before one realizes they've tread down the path of outright fascism/communism/totalitarianism.

[wleakr]

...taking away someone's livelihood isn't akin to killing them...

So, if you take away someone's livelihood (i.e. their main source in acquiring the necessities of life), what would that be equivalent to, in your opinion?

Maybe "killing" is too strong a term? But it sure isn't going to be pleasant.

[The Gold Stream]

id say just a comedian but hes in the top tier so it might seem like "more" but yeah great stage presence & timing