Why is Jean never held accountable for her emotional affair with another man?

[davetvs]

I think OP was talking about pre-Krakoa era, though. Jean died during Morisson's run asking about Scott and talking about love as she's dying near the Sun - it doesn't scream romantic feelings towards Logan. Then she comes back and they meet two times before Krakoa and, judging by their interaction, it seems pretty clear that she loves Scott. So again: what kind of actual romantic feelings Jean has for Logan if she keeps saying and acting in accordance to loving Scott? I think we can only contend she had those feelings if we ignore what the character actually says she feels over and over again. And, personally, I have a problem with invalidating her feelings while simultaneously judging her.

Current shenanigans is something I don't think anyone can argue without resorting to speculation, though, and I'm so tired of this particular discussion that I just don't want to anyway.

Why are you acting like it's impossible to have romantic and/or sexual feelings for multiple people at once? I don't think anyone's arguing that Logan is Jean's true love, that would definitely be Scott, but loving Scott doesn't mean she doesn't -also- have feelings for Logan. They're just not as deep. The same way Scott loves her, but -also- continues to have feelings for Emma. Current shenanigans don't need speculation, they have spelled it out multiple times, including in interviews. It's only a certain set of fans who keep pretending the situation is more ambiguous than it actually is because they don't like it.

[Grinning Soul]

Happens when the males are fan favorites.

Reminds me of Buffy x Spike. She spent season 6 screwing him while suffering PTSD. She says repeatedly that she doesn't love him, and all they have is casual sex.

But Spike refuses to believe her, says she loves him and just won't admit it, and that's what their shippers cling to. Spike's twisted interpretation rather than Buffy outright saying where she stood on numerous occasions.

It's been so many years I watched Buffy the details are fuzzy, so I can't really agree or disagree with you here. But I do get your point. And it's really upsetting when this happens in fiction because far too often it happens in real life as well.

We're talking about Jean being accountable for an emotional affair with Logan and not considering *her* feelings that she expressed many, many times? How is this logical?

[Grinning Soul]

Why are you acting like it's impossible to have romantic and/or sexual feelings for multiple people at once? I don't think anyone's arguing that Logan is Jean's true love, that would definitely be Scott, but loving Scott doesn't mean she doesn't -also- have feelings for Logan. They're just not as deep. The same way Scott loves her, but -also- continues to have feelings for Emma. Current shenanigans don't need speculation, they have spelled it out multiple times, including in interviews. It's only a certain set of fans who keep pretending the situation is more ambiguous than it actually is because they don't like it.

I'm not arguing she can't have romantic feelings for more than one man. But I posted a panel in which *she* doesn't characterize her feelings [EDIT: again, pre-Krakoa] for Logan like that. Why are you ignoring it?

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

[JeanFanboyRage]

Lol rabid Cyke fans killed Jean off (Morrison) and mandated that she stay dead (Joe Quesada) because they wanted to give Cyclops a new love interest without Jean Grey continuing to exist in a similar fashion.

That is why!

And then the nerve to just put them back together like the Scott/Emma stories and in-story digs at Jean Grey via Cyclops and Emma from various writers didn't happen.

Jean should be held accountable not a minute before she is allowed to be an individual character in her own right separate from whatever narrative they have for Cyclops.

She can't even have important comic book roles because she has to be in whatever room Cyclops is in at all times lol.

No other character lost their role in the Council or other narratives strictly due to shipping (and boring shipping at that).

[/JeanFanboyRage]

[Lucyinthesky]

We really comparing

- having a secret wife and child plus later having a straight sexual affair with another woman

to

- being attracted to someone else but not acting on it.

Wow.

I mostly agree with this, Jean being attracted to Logan in the past because of the attention he gave to her is not comparable to the affair Scott had with Emma while married with Jean, she never acted on it and that´s a fact. I don´t hold Madelyne agaist Scott because Jean was dead at the time and he married her because she was identical to Jean, so when it comes to Jean he was not cheating with Madelyne, the personal situation with Maddie and Scott was quite different, imo given he definitely abandoned her to rejoin Jean and the others on X-factor.

I still think Jean and Scott should talk about all those issues, I didn´t like them being together again so soon without even talking about Emma and Logan, it was not realistic, they may be each other love of their life but this doesn´t mean their relationship is without flaws and it would be an interesting idea to see how they work towards getting back together.

I also think Emma and Logan are quite aware Jean and Scott are way more intimate emotionally, than they will ever be with them, half the time Emma feared she was going to lose Scott over Jean´s phantom and Logan always knew, from the beggining, he was not going to be Jean´s end point, so he mostly teased her but we didn´t see him trying to pursue an actual serious relationship with her. I could be wrong as I have not read all their stories but this is how they look to me.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Well, since we’re throwing inflammatory grenades into the room, I personally think it’s because Jean and Logan are soul mates and all the other X-men know it. So they don’t hold it against her and understand that she stays with Scott out of guilt, and necessity. Because without Jean to keep him steady Scott can’t lead the X-men as effectively. So she allows for his dalliances with Emma, while he allows for hers with Logan; because whether they can admit to one another or not, they’re not each other’s soul mate. They’re really just good friends who love each other. My $.02.

A bold take.

We don't allow those here lolol

[Hizashi]

It doesn't mean that what makes sense or works?

The relationship, whatever it is exactly, between Scott, Jean, and Logan. Unless you were talking about something else?

[Micabe]

Jean didn't "will" the affair ?? she literally encountered them having telepathic s*x in Scott's mind after coming back from a trip, because the Cuckoos told her, and not only that but Emma was pretending to be her lol

We really comparing

- having a secret wife and child plus later having a straight sexual affair with another woman

to

- being attracted to someone else but not acting on it.

Wow.

Isn't it amazing how in an ever-increasing attempt to paint Jean Grey as a total whore -- Emma is hypocritically lauded for mind raping Jean's husband?

[Hizashi]

And yet those shenanigans have us talking about this over and over and over, and litigating the relationships from both sides (or all sides for that likely small group who are neither Jott nor Jogan shippers but rather enjoy the polyamory undefined current status quo)…

…kind of makes you wonder if that’s not the point?

Making bad decisions for shock value or to rile up the audience is hardly a winning strategy. Even if it creates buzz, it's not worth it in my opinion especially because of what it can do to the characters.

[Kingdom X]

I’m very curious as to what OP means by “holding Jean accountable”. In-story why would anyone be pointing a finger at Jean over a kiss with Logan, when they’re just glad to have their friend back after a long absence. Also the only one who would be negatively affected by the kiss would be Scott, but he was having an affair and thus would have no grounds to “hold her accountable”.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Anyone else wish Jean had messed around with Logan? Beyond just shipping them, I mean.

Think about it, all of the peeps invested in a virginal Jean would be glommed onto...idk...maybe they would have hooked Scott up with Kitty...and then there wouldn't be such a shock when Jean is allowed to do *anything* in the absence of Laser Vision Man.

They'd have really killed her off if she'd actually had an affair though lol.

[Hizashi]

I’m very curious as to what OP means by “holding Jean accountable”. In-story why would anyone be pointing a finger at Jean over a kiss with Logan, when they’re just glad to have their friend back after a long absence. Also the only one who would be negatively affected by the kiss would be Scott, but he was having an affair and thus would have no grounds to “hold her accountable”.

Hmmm, good point. I certainly wouldn't want Jean being shamed about it, and definitely not in a public setting.

[Micabe]

Now, that I think about it... Has Emma ever love a man in her life that she didn't have to seduce?

[Hizashi]

I think OP was talking about pre-Krakoa era, though. Jean died during Morrison's run. She was asking about Scott and talking about love as she's dying near the Sun - it doesn't scream romantic feelings towards Logan. Then she comes back and they (EDIT: Scott and Jean) meet two times before Krakoa and, judging by their interaction, it seems pretty clear that she loves Scott. So again: what kind of actual romantic feelings Jean has for Logan if she keeps saying and acting in accordance to loving Scott? I think we can only contend she had those feelings if we ignore what the character actually says she feels over and over again. And, personally, I have a problem with invalidating her feelings while simultaneously judging her.

EDIT: Before Morrison's run, when it comes to the couple, there was The Twelve. Jean lost Scott and was devastated. And right before that, they were in Alaska, recovering, and talking about having a baby. Where is her romantic feelings towards Logan during all of that? Yes. Logan is important to her. He certainly has a special place in her heart, but so does Ororo and Xavier. It seems to me that what we're actually judging her is for being attracted to Logan. And that... that is way too unfair.

Current shenanigans is something I don't think anyone can argue without resorting to speculation, though, and I'm so tired of this particular discussion that I just don't want to anyway.

We agree that Jean doesn't love Logan like she does Scott, but we also agree that she was attracted to him right? That she chooses Scott but deals with guilt and shame over that attraction to Logan? If she put it all past her during Fatal Attractions (or whichever storyline was referenced), I just wish that Marvel would leave it at that, instead of having brought back the thread in the early-mid-2000's and culminating in our current situation. We're in an unfalsifiable trap, where fans of the current era can point back to this attraction, and the current era supports that the attraction continued. Have I missed something?

I'm not trying to judge Jean for any attraction she may have, only that as Marvel's narrative has played out, Jean held a torch for someone else while in a committed relationship for some time. I don't like that, but that's what I see. I wouldn't expect my significant other to be happy with me if we were in that situation.

[Grinning Soul]

We agree that Jean doesn't love Logan like she does Scott, but we also agree that she was attracted to him right? That she chooses Scott but deals with guilt and shame over that attraction to Logan? If she put it all past her during Fatal Attractions (or whichever storyline was referenced), I just wish that Marvel would leave it at that, instead of having brought back the thread in the early-mid-2000's and culminating in our current situation. We're in an unfalsifiable trap, where fans of the current era can point back to this attraction, and the current era supports that the attraction continued. Have I missed something?

I'm not trying to judge Jean for any attraction she may have, only that as Marvel's narrative has played out, Jean held a torch for someone else while in a committed relationship for some time. I don't like that, but that's what I see. I wouldn't expect my significant other to be happy with me if we were in that situation.

But this is exactly what I'm arguing here. Jean loves Logan. Jean loves Ororo. Jean loves Xavier.

People can accept that her feelings for Ororo and Xavier aren't romantic, but not for Logan. Why? Because she's attracted to him.

Without arguing the nature of this attraction, how can you expect someone will never experience attraction to another person?

Yes. Jean was confused. Attraction can be confusing when you're a 20-something year old. But then she figured it out and she characterised it as a deep bond of friendship. Why aren't we taking *her* perspective into account here?