Why is Jean never held accountable for her emotional affair with another man?

[Lucyinthesky]

I would not say she hold a torch for Logan, more like a mix of friendship and attraction and she was open to talk about this right before they got married, this was honestly one my favorite issues with them back then, because they didn´t shy away from talking about the unsavory aspects of their relationship before taking a step to make their compromise official, I miss those kind of thoughful issues in which we get into the characters head and know their reasons.

Now outside story, I think Morrison just added that scene between Logan and Jean to make more palatable the plans he had for Emma and Scott and then went even more overboard saying Jean bassically put them together so it was alright Scott stayed with Emma when still it didn´t feel that way for a long time for fans or the other X-men characters.

All this I think would be worth talking about between the characters, I think a little touch of them talking about their issues in a mature way without avoiding the harder matters would do wonders for their relationship and would be an interesting narrative. It´s great to see them kissing and playing rock, paper, scissors sometimes but those are characters with a lot of background to cover before getting back into bussines as usual when it comes to their relationship and making it seem like they don´t looks false to long time readers of both characters.

[Hizashi]

But this is exactly what I'm arguing here. Jean loves Logan. Jean loves Ororo. Jean loves Xavier.

People can accept that her feelings for Ororo and Xavier aren't romantic, but not for Logan. Why? Because she's attracted to him.

Without arguing the nature of this attraction, how can you expect someone will never experience attraction to another person?

Yes. Jean was confused. Attraction can be confusing when you're a 20-something year old. But then she figured it out and she characterised it as a deep bond of friendship. Why aren't we taking *her* perspective into account here?

This situation we find ourselves in is a little humorous because I wanted to discuss this topic (although not framed like this) following from our previous PM's.

[Grinning Soul]

This situation we find ourselves in is a little humorous because I wanted to discuss this topic (although not framed like this) following from our previous PM's.

I'll reply to you tomorrow (I should try to sleep now). We can continue there if you want.

[Grinning Soul]

I would not say she hold a torch for him, more like a mix of friendship and attraction and she was open to talk about this right before they got married, this was honestly one my favorite issues with them back then, because they didn´t shy away from talking about the unsavory aspects of their relationship before taking a step to make their compromise official, I miss those kind of thoughful issues in which we get into the characters head and know their reasons.

Now outside story, I think Morrison just added that scene between Logan and Jean to make more palatable the plans he had for Emma and Scott and then went even more overboard saying Jean bassically put them together so it was alright Scott stayed with Emma when still it didn´t feel that way for a long time for fans or the other X-men characters.

All this I think would be worth talking about between the characters, I think a little touch of them talking about their issues in a mature way without avoiding the harder matters would do wonders for their relationship and would be an interesting narrative.

I'll try to reply to you on the other thread too, lucy.

[Hizashi]

I would not say she hold a torch for him, more like a mix of friendship and attraction and she was open to talk about this right before they got married, this is honestly my favorite issues from them back then, because they didn´t shy away from talking about the unsavory aspects of their relationship before taking a step to make a compromise.

Now outside story, I think Morrison just added that scene between Logan and Jean to make more palatable the plans he had for Emma and Scott and then went even more overboard saying Jean bassically put them together so it was alright when still it didn´t feel that way for a long time for fans or the other X-men characters.

All this I think would be worth talking about between the characters, I think a little touch of them talking about their issues in a mature way without avoiding the harder matters would do wonders for their relationship and would be an interesting narrative.

Well, this just makes too much sense.

[Hizashi]

I'll reply to you tomorrow (I should try to sleep now). We can continue there if you want.

Please get plenty of rest.

[Lucyinthesky]

I'll try to reply to you on the other thread too, lucy.

Great I am looking forward to read it. Rest well Grinning Soul

Well, this just makes too much sense.

I just want the best for both characters and I think their relationship really needs this type of talk before truly advancing.

[OmegaStorm87]

But this is exactly what I'm arguing here. Jean loves Logan. Jean loves Ororo. Jean loves Xavier.

People can accept that her feelings for Ororo and Xavier aren't romantic, but not for Logan. Why? Because she's attracted to him.

Without arguing the nature of this attraction, how can you expect someone will never experience attraction to another person?

Yes. Jean was confused. Attraction can be confusing when you're a 20-something year old. But then she figured it out and she characterised it as a deep bond of friendship. Why aren't we taking *her* perspective into account here?

Are you actually trying to deny that Jean doesn't have any romantic feelings for Logan when she literally just fucked him in a hot tub (classy) or whatever it was in X-Force a few issues ago?

[Micabe]

Are you actually trying to deny that Jean doesn't have any romantic feelings for Logan when she literally just fucked him in a hot tub (classy) or whatever it was in X-Force a few issues ago?

What title and issue did you witness this event in?

[Grinning Soul]

Are you actually trying to deny that Jean doesn't have any romantic feelings for Logan when she literally just fucked him in a hot tub (classy) or whatever it was in X-Force a few issues ago?

1) No one needs to have romantic feelings for another person to have sex with them.
2) Like I said many times, I'm talking about pre-Krakoa, because it seemed to me you framed that question about this period. And also because I don't want to talk about the Krakoa era.

[davetvs]

1) No one needs to have romantic feelings for another person to have sex with them.
2) Like I said many times, I'm talking about pre-Krakoa, because it seemed to me you framed that question about this period. And also because I don't want to talk about the Krakoa era.

You're right about #1, but how do you reconcile Jean "not having feelings for Logan" while actively sleeping with him? Do you think she sees him as a friend with benefits, similar to Ororo/Logan when they were at the Jean Grey school? I could see that being argued successfully. I understand from your second point that you don't want to talk about Krakoa but that's the era we're in...it's again intellectually dishonest to argue Jean's feelings for Logan were wrapped up and done with in the 90s as if what happened afterwards has no bearing on the discussion or points being made vs. informing them.

[Lucyinthesky]

Yes acording to Percy and some interview comments by JDW and Hickman, it looks like both Jean and Scott are keeping a sexual relationship with Emma and Logan but I honestly will take the position of Nick Fury on this instance and go all the council is wrong so I will ignore this, it doesn´t make sense at all to any of these characters, Logan and Emma are too proud to stay around for people who can´t compromise with them and are second choice always and Scott and Jean are actually people who take value in their spouse being faithful to them.

This is why I disliked a lot this whole "Krakoa is like Vegas" take it devalues the relationships the characters used to have in exchange of jokes for interviews and nothing more. Because it sure doesn´t look like the writers are truly going to explore Jean and Scott romantic relationship or their supposed "open relationship" with Logan and Emma and that´s honestly insulting to the fans who have been long time readers of this characters. They could have easily covered this on a parody comic not the main line.

[placeholder]

If you see her body expression during and after this kiss and it doesn't make you uncomfortable, I don't know what to say.

But again: would you, please, show the panel right before the kiss in which she's pulling away and Logan is grabbing her right arm?

??? Shes kissing his nose and stroking his face.

Screenshot_20211027-022931_Chrome.jpg

[Grinning Soul]

You're right about #1, but how do you reconcile Jean "not having feelings for Logan" while actively sleeping with him?

How do we know it was not a 1-time thing? That's what I meant before about Krakoa era: we just don't know exactly what was going on.

Does Scott know? Is he okay with it? It seems so. But I guess you can argue both ways. It *seemed* to me that they were in some form of a polyamorous relationship, but I cannot say much more than that. I can't even say for certain who was a lover to whom.

And I don't think anyone can. Not for certain.

Do you think she sees him as a friend with benefits, similar to Ororo/Logan when they were at the Jean Grey school? I could see that being argued successfully.

Maybe. I really don't know. And I don't know how they got there.

So you see why I find it hard to discuss anything about their relationship during this Krakoa era? We have very few facts to base any discussion.

I understand from your second point that you don't want to talk about Krakoa but that's the era we're in...it's again intellectually dishonest to argue Jean's feelings for Logan were wrapped up and done with in the 90s as if what happened afterwards has no bearing on the discussion or points being made vs. informing them.

I get that Krakoa is our current era. But how is it not intellectually dishonest to characterise her feelings any way in this era, when we haven't seen Jean's feelings about it *anywhere*?

[Grinning Soul]

??? Shes kissing his nose and stroking his face.

Screenshot_20211027-022931_Chrome.jpg

Look at their hand expression [EDIT: on the last panel], please: his left and her right.