Why is Jean never held accountable for her emotional affair with another man?

[Grinning Soul]

If you see her body expression during and after this kiss and it doesn't make you uncomfortable, I don't know what to say.

But again: would you, please, show the panel right before the kiss in which she's pulling away and Logan is grabbing her right arm?

[davetvs]

If you see her body expression during and after this kiss and it doesn't make you uncomfortable, I don't know what to say.

You don't find it sexist that you're simultaneously infantilizing and deifying the character so much you're robbing her of her own agency? You literally just tried to re-write all of Jean/Logan's sexual interactions as being forced, despite evidence to the contrary, and are now projecting your own fanon onto "body expression."

[Grinning Soul]

You don't find it sexist that you're simultaneously infantilizing and deifying the character so much you're robbing her of her own agency? You literally just tried to re-write all of Jean/Logan's sexual interactions as being forced.

No. I'm not. I'm looking at her body expression. Objectively.

[Askani's Flame]

So were back on the Jean is the real villain in their relationship discussion. Le sigh. First of all, a kiss isn't an affair. Kissing someone outside your relationship is cheating for sure, but an affair implies consent and continued cheating unbeknownst to your partner. Nothing discussed here or in the books would classify Jean's relationship to Logan as an affair. Yes is it weird? Sure. But look at the nature of their relationship in the comics:

• teenage/"high school" sweethearts
• star crossed lovers
• one gets possessed and has to be saved, and dies
• existing as friends when one comes back to life while one is married to someone else
• coming back together officially after other wife dies
• raising an infant child, only to have to send them out of your life to save them
• dealing with issues of cheating and moments of sin
• being married
• being on a 12 year honeymoon where you raise the child you thought was gone for good in the future brought there by your other child
• returning to the past and trying to refind you place in the world and together
• one gets possessed and has to be saved (again)
• dealing with trauma and issues separate instead of together
• more cheating
• death
• more death
• both coming back and existing together for the first time in years
• being open to knowing they can be intimate with more than one, but their love is eternal

There's a lot to unpack in their relationship. But here are some truths:
- Wolverine has an unhealthy attachment to Jean which has caused him to kiss her without consent on multiple occasions and take advantage of her. That's sexual assault but it's Wolverine so he gets a pass, right?
- Jean has acted out on her feelings to Logan once with a kiss, which I wasn't reading Morrison's run so I thought she was envisioning Scott.
- Scott had been shown to have very strong sexual feelings for Betsy over multiple issues, and even allowed her to kiss him.
- Scott feeling unable to talk to his wife sought assistance, then comfort, then more with another woman. Another woman who had helped orchestrate his wife's death years prior.
- Since returning to life, they both have not hidden their interest in Emma and Logan, and honestly the readers are the only ones who care.

This thread feels like it's not trying to engage in a conversation vs slut shaming and to try to take Jean down a notch by painting her as a villain in her marriage. Similar to how other posters are claiming that Madelyne deserved things that happened to her (in particular leading and during Inferno) because she "raped" Scott 20 years later. Neither Scott or Jean are perfect, but in looking at the actual evidence and panels it is clear that Scott has more "blame" in terms of being a poor partner than Jean. Yes, neither characters are perfect and have had mistakes. And yes we should hold her accountable for the one moment she initiated, but it looks like the men in her life have more to be held accountable for than she does.

[OmegaStorm87]

No. She's not. You can read all of those pre-Krakoa kisses as non-consented. Specially because she's not even looking at Logan in the panel *right before* the kiss in 3 out of 4 of them. And the one she's looking at him, she's already pulling away from him.

The reason she doesn't confront him is because after the first occasion in which this happens, he taunts her, which makes her feelings of guilt and shame much worse.

Stop blaming the victim.

This thread is so sexist, it so blatantly disregards the feelings of the female character who is accused of having an emotional *affair*, (which is an deliberate action, not a feeling) that it is frankly, disgusting.

#1 - Take a step back, breath, and realize we're talking about silly super hero comics. It's really not that serious and certainly not worth getting this upset over.

#2 - Stop removing the agency of a female character and trying to rewrite and whitewash what is obvious to all just because the idea of Jean having actual human flaws triggers you so badly.

[Jackraow21]

That kiss was hotter than anything Scott and Jean have ever done in the comics.

[Grinning Soul]

#1 - Take a step back, breath, and realize we're talking about silly super hero comics. It's really not that serious and certainly not worth getting this upset over.

#2 - Stop removing the agency of a female character and trying to rewrite and whitewash what is obvious to all just because the idea of Jean having actual human flaws triggers you so badly.

It triggers me because the sexism behind this thread is part of my life and I don't have a choice not to live through it.

If you're allowed to create such a thread - and I'm not suggesting you shouldn't be - I'm allowed to react to it.

[Grinning Soul]

That kiss was hotter than anything Scott and Jean have ever done in the comics.

I'd strongly disagree. This is how Jean kisses a man she *wants* to kiss:

[OmegaStorm87]

So were back on the Jean is the real villain in their relationship discussion.

Yeah, no, that's not what's happening. It's not about who's "the villian". It's about questioning why the narrative within the universe and within the fandom seems to consistently demonize Scott for his poor choices within the relationship while giving Jean and Logan a pass.

[davetvs]

No. I'm not. I'm looking at her body expression. Objectively.

No offense but it doesn't seem like you're capable of objectivity in a discussion about Jean.

[Devaishwarya]

Why should Jean be held accountable for anything, though? Just because Scott was guilted by readers?
Who are we to be so judgmental of fictional characters, showing their flaws?

[Grinning Soul]

No offense but it doesn't seem like you're capable of objectivity in a discussion about Jean.

You're allowed to have your opinion. I'm allowed not agree with it. No offense taken.

[OmegaStorm87]

It triggers me because the sexism behind this thread is part of my life and I don't have a choice not to live through it.

If you're allowed to create such a thread - and I'm not suggesting you shouldn't be - I'm allowed to react to it.

I'm female too. You're projecting intent in order to undermine any point made that you disagree with.

You're free to react however you please, I'm simply suggesting you use some perspective and objectivity.

[Grinning Soul]

I'm female too. You're projecting intent in order to undermine any point made that you disagree with.

You're free to react however you please, I'm simply suggesting you use some perspective and objectivity.

I am. Just because we don't agree or because this "triggers" me, as you put, it doesn't mean my logic and objectivity disappears.

[OmegaStorm87]

Why should Jean be held accountable for anything, though? Just because Scott was guilted by readers?
Who are we to be so judgmental of fictional characters, showing their flaws?

Personally, I don't care about fictional characters doing "bad things", but as you can see, some people have VERY strong feelings on the matter.