Why is Jean never held accountable for her emotional affair with another man?

[Jackraow21]

I'd strongly disagree. This is how Jean kisses a man she *wants* to kiss:

Super bland. Yuck.

[Triniking1234]

We really comparing

- having a secret wife and child plus later having a straight sexual affair with another woman

to

- being attracted to someone else but not acting on it.

Wow.

[IN-a-Synch]

Would you also add the panel right before the kiss, please? The one in which she's talking about *Scott*? And not even looking at Logan?

Even still Scott was emotionally withdrawn from Jean due to the Appocy situation. She went to Logan to talk about it. Who cares if she’s not looking at him. She’s done this multiple times with Logan. But Logan is to fully blame?? I think not. Also please don’t take my post as aggressive just having friendly convo.

[Grinning Soul]

Even still Scott was emotionally withdrawn from Jean due to the Appocy situation. She went to Logan to talk about it. Who cares if she’s not looking at him. She’s done this multiple times with Logan. But Logan is to fully blame?? I think not. Also please don’t take my post as aggressive just having friendly convo.

I care, because of a little thing called "consent". They were not in a romantic relationship, he doesn't get to simply kiss her, regardless of her intention to be there.

EDIT: Again, you *can* (emphasis on the verb, please) read all those kisses as non-consented. That's the reason why I'm asking for the panels before and after and the circumstances around those kisses. Because it matters. And if we're being fair here, we should talk about this interpretation, even if we don't agree in the end.

I didn't take it as aggressive, by the way.

[OmegaStorm87]

We really comparing

- having a secret wife and child plus later having a straight sexual affair with another woman

to

- being attracted to someone else but not acting on it.

Wow.

She did act on it though, repeatedly.

[IN-a-Synch]

I care, because of a little thing called "consent". They were not in a romantic relationship, he doesn't get to simply kiss her, regardless of her intention to be there.

I didn't take it as aggressive, by the way.

I think in that instance though it was allowed by her. That is why Logan replies how he replies. She was looking for sympathy and an outlet through Logan. I don’t feel Logan just took the kiss.

[Mercury]

Personally, I don't care about fictional characters doing "bad things", but as you can see, some people have VERY strong feelings on the matter.

Oh, but you do care, otherwise you wouldn’t have created this thread.

Of course Jean is flawed - she has a fiery temper, can be intrusive and impatient, especially during her time-displaced teenage years, and tends to undermine and underestimate herself (those are flaws, too) - but she’s also always been selfless and heroic. One of the main reasons she’s been sanctified is because she was one of if not the first to lay down her life for her team, a decision that cost her much and which continues to affect her.

Acting as if she is in love with and has been carrying on an affair with Logan for years, and that everybody knows it, is ludicrous. (Believe me, I have often wished for them to be together!) Some of the examples of Logan kissing Jean posted in this thread have been taken completely out of context. I certainly don’t consider these kisses abusive - I apologize in advance to those who do - but, for the most part, they weren’t consensual either. However, the fact that Jean has been depicted expressing that she’s attracted to him and that she has enjoyed some of these kisses is what has stopped me from categorizing them as harassment.

I’ll write more later, but just wanted to throw the above out there.

[davetvs]

In the panel that was posted, Jean and Logan are clearly making out, hence there being several consecutive panels of the kiss to communicate time passing before she pulls away. Reading that as Logan forcing himself on her does a disservice to both characters (in a major way) and is intellectually dishonest, but it's to be expected when there is a certain sect of fans who are responsible for Saint Jean being used pejoratively. That kiss was the same as Betsy's and Scott's in that Scott (Jean) went along with it until they came to their senses, realized it was the "wrong" thing to do, and pulled away. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Grinning Soul]

I think in that instance though it was allowed by her. That is why Logan replies how he replies. She was looking for sympathy and an outlet through Logan. I don’t feel Logan just took the kiss.

Look, it's fine that you read this way. But another possible interpretation - which is also valid here - is that she was so emotionally vulnerable (which would be supported by what she's saying right before the kiss), that Logan understood he'd be taking advantage of her and backed off.

But people rarely afford Jean this possibility. She's judged, sometimes, in very disgusting ways. And again: if we're actually to talk about things such an "emotional affair" and we don't consider the actual feelings and actions of the character... we're here just to pass unfair judgment?

In the same run, as she's dying near the Sun, with Logan, she's again asking about Scott and saying she loves him. How is this woman having an emotional affair with Logan?

[Grinning Soul]

In the panel that was posted, Jean and Logan are clearly making out, hence there being several consecutive panels of the kiss to communicate time passing before she pulls away. Reading that as Logan forcing himself on her does a disservice to both characters (in a major way) and is intellectually dishonest, but it's to be expected when there is a certain sect of fans who are responsible for Saint Jean being used pejoratively. That kiss was the same as Betsy's and Scott's in that Scott (Jean) went along with it until they came to their senses, realized it was the "wrong" thing to do, and pulled away. Nothing more, nothing less.

Would you, please, stop caracterising something as "intellectually dishonest", just because you don't agree with it?

[IN-a-Synch]

Look, it's fine that you read this way. But another possible interpretation - which is also valid here - is that she was so emotionally vulnerable (which would be supported by what she's saying right before the kiss), that Logan understood he'd be taking advantage of her and backed off.

But people rarely afford Jean this possibility. She's judged, sometimes, in very disgusting ways. And again: if we're actually to talk about things such and "emotional affair" and we don't consider the actual feelings and actions of the character... we're here just to pass unfair judgment?

In the same run, as she's dying near the Sun, with Logan, she's again asking about Scott. How is this woman having an emotional affair with Logan?

You are right but In the Planet X storyline. Logan Killed her. They didn’t kiss. It was in the uncanny book (before the kissed I showed)where they kissed because they thought they were going to die. Remember that weird character put them in another realm. But anyway I read it as to where she was confused, emotionally distraught and was looking for something from Logan. He shut it down, because maybe as he stated it wouldn’t work.

[davetvs]

Would you, please, stop caracterising something as "intellectually dishonest", just because you don't agree with it?

You're characterizing something as sexual assault because you don't agree with it though, are you not?

[Mercury]

In the panel that was posted, Jean and Logan are clearly making out, hence there being several consecutive panels of the kiss to communicate time passing before she pulls away. Reading that as Logan forcing himself on her does a disservice to both characters (in a major way) and is intellectually dishonest, but it's to be expected when there is a certain sect of fans who are responsible for Saint Jean being used pejoratively. That kiss was the same as Betsy's and Scott's in that Scott (Jean) went along with it until they came to their senses, realized it was the "wrong" thing to do, and pulled away. Nothing more, nothing less.

I agree with this.

EDIT: But he started it goddammit! 😂

[Grinning Soul]

You are right but In the Planet X storyline. Logan Killed her. They didn’t kiss. It was in the uncanny book (before the kissed I showed)where they kissed because they thought they were going to die. Remember that weird character put them in another realm. But anyway I read it as to where she was confused, emotionally distraught and was looking for something from Logan. He shut it down, because maybe as he stated it wouldn’t work.

I remember. And again: she's freaking out because they're about to die, not looking at Logan, right before the kiss.

This is not the state of mind of someone who wants to be kissed. He's the one who says that if that's their last breath, they're not wasting it. It's *not* her.

So again: if we're going to judge her, how can we not take her feelings and circumstances into account?

[Grinning Soul]

You're characterizing something as sexual assault because you don't agree with it though, are you not?

No. I'm characterising it as non-consensual. And I can argue it objectively if you want. You might still not agree with it. But my characterisation of it isn't due to my feelings.

EDIT: Anyway, I have to log off now. I'll try to reply tomorrow, if I can.