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  1. #1
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    Default So, how strong is the World?

    Recently, a certain web series used one Dio Brando in a fight, and gave him some fairly high balled numbers.

    This, naturally, raises the question: How strong and fast is the World actually?

  2. #2
    Mighty Member Kuro's Avatar
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    It’s at least as strong as Star Platinum who could pulverize diamonds with its fists

  3. #3
    Amazing Member Nebulous's Avatar
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    We talking the recent Death Battle? Yeah they high balled DIO like hell in that fight. Best to go by actual feats.

    Best striking feat I can think of in Part 3 is Star Platinum (who proved a bit stronger than The World) making a large rock into a sizable cave with one punch


    http://https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8yg0AxFD7OA

    2:31

  4. #4

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    Well for starters, we can safely dispense with the notion that, despite the author's statements, any of the Stardust Crusader era stands are lightspeed.

    Even if the Stands are faster than their users and we grant them some level of autonomy as in the case of Jotaro's bullet catch, many of the feats exist in that 'looks cool, calculates poorly' sort of way, and we end up having to quantify each Stand user against each other. While A > B > C Logic gets us somewhere, it might not always be clean.

    For example, Dio's The World is mainly measured against its most obvious peer, Star Platinum. It is generally presented as stronger and faster than Jotaro's stand, with the addition of a timestop.

    So we can start with how fast is Star Platinum? Off the top of my head:

    1) Fast enough to catch a bullet at point blank.
    2) Fast enough to deflect most of Heirophant Green's Emerald Splash
    3) Not fast enough to hit Grey Tower, who could easily dodge its punches
    4) Fast enough that it can grab Jotaro a cigarette and a drink from the bar without Daniel J D'arby noticing him.
    5) Not quite fast enough to keep pace with Silver Chariot possessed by Anubis
    6) From a dead stop in Dio's frozen time to a span of one second, it can deflect most, but not all of his thrown knives.

    ...oh just to be cheeky:

    7) Can't do anything if Jotaro can't find the angle of attack of a particularly vindictive rat sniper (granted while Jotaro is generally the problem solver of Part IV that is often absent, it's stated he's kinda rusty when it comes to Stand battles at this time)

    So, #6 might be something we can calculate. From these pages [1] and [2] we can estimate Dio grabbed around 30 knives from the butcher shop he was punched into and threw them all at Jotaro in a wide area. Jotaro deflects most of them when time resumes, but still gets a bunch in his leg and his hat.

    Discounting however hard Dio threw the knives in their travelling velocity, if either of them could move at light speed, either Star Platinum would have had no problem deflecting 30 knives in a second, or Jotaro's head would have exploded from a knife travelling at relativistic speeds through his hat, not matter how many magazine pages were stuffed in there.

    How does this scale? I dunno, too many variables, from the velocity of how fast the knives were travelling, to how fast Star Platinum and the World actually are. Being charitable we might say they are somewhere around bullet-timer...ish.

    ...

    How strong The World is, again, scales to Star Platinum. As mentioned above, Jotaro defeated Midler's High Priestess by punching its teeth out, made from materials gathered from the sea floor and stated to be hard as diamonds [1] [2] Jotaro broke her teeth and transferred the damage to her face while she was actively trying to eat the party.

    How strong is that? I suppose we could apportion human bite force across High Priestess' face at that moment. FWIW, Jotaro is 6'5", i'd imagine the leverage of the force is substantial...but I'm too lazy to do that right now. Additionally, diamonds, despite their unbreakable reputation, shatter pretty easily, but I don't think that was what Araki had in mind. ...but I'm too lazy to calc anything right now, but Star Platinum is probably a Spider-man-esque "Class 10" or something like that.

    Everyone knows the steamroller feat, however, which while exciting somewhat undermines Jotaro escaping from the predicament with Midler, I feel. Smashing through solid, "diamond hard" stone vs a steam roller Dio himself was punching through on the other side, while cool, is kinda dumb.

    ...it is a speed feat, though. Dio peaced out for a while seven seconds before coming back with it, suggesting lugging around that kind of weight is trivial for him.

    Again, lazy, plucking up the best DuckDuckGo has to offer, I found the uh..."Sakai SV510-III Series" the heaviest of which has an operating weight of 29,255 lbs/ 13,270 kg. Dio was just booking with this ~15 tonne thing through the skies of Cairo before dropping it on Jotaro.

    Other miscellaneous, hard to calculate feats include punching Jotaro across the city [1] [2] which is pretty impressive. Again, don't know how to quantify it, but hey, neato.

    ...in conclusion he probably still beats Alucard, but not in the way Whiz and Boomstick calculated.
    Last edited by grampagen; 10-26-2021 at 05:37 PM.

  5. #5
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grampagen View Post
    How does this scale? I dunno, too many variables, from the velocity of how fast the knives were travelling, to how fast Star Platinum and the World actually are. Being charitable we might say they are somewhere around bullet-timer...ish.
    As a note, if we're going with bullet-timer-ish then we have an issue with the subsequent statement...

    ...in conclusion he probably still beats Alucard, but not in the way Whiz and Boomstick calculated.
    ...because Alucard is a heck of a lot faster than that.

    EDIT: I now realise I misread this post. The bullet-timer-ish comment was directed at the knives rather than at The World itself. Apologies. However, my point about how fast Alucard is still kind of stands (aha) methinks.

    You've got Luke Valentine doing stuff like this:



    And Tubalcain Alhambra slicing extremely high calibre machine gun rounds out of the air

    And neither of them were any threat to Alucard nor were shown to be specifically faster than him. His total reaction to them was him being like "haha, cute," and then murdering them with impunity when he released his seals.

    You also have Alucard himself catching Rip Van Winkle's magic bullet /in his teeth/ while flying towards it at multimach speed in a suicide-diving jet plane; her bullet itself having been shown to be fast and responsive enough to chase down and destroy fighter jets on a fly-by. I also think we have Walter blocking bullets and blitzing crowds of people and Alucard basically fought the young revitalised him because he found it amusing more than threatening (I'd have to check that last one for accuracy as it's been a hot minute.)

    Based on the feats for The World above, Alucard is going to have very little issue with its speed at least.
    Last edited by Nik Hasta; 10-27-2021 at 07:36 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    You also have Alucard himself catching Rip Van Winkle's magic bullet /in his teeth/ while flying towards it at multimach speed in a suicide-diving jet plane; her bullet itself having been shown to be fast and responsive enough to chase down and destroy fighter jets on a fly-by. I also think we have Walter blocking bullets and blitzing crowds of people and Alucard basically fought the young revitalised him because he found it amusing more than threatening (I'd have to check that last one for accuracy as it's been a hot minute.)

    Based on the feats for The World above, Alucard is going to have very little issue with its speed at least.
    IIRC, the Bullet Catch is after he flies at Rip in the Blackbird, not during

  7. #7
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    IIRC, the Bullet Catch is after he flies at Rip in the Blackbird, not during
    Having checked, you are correct. As noted, it's been a hot minute since I read Hellsing.

    Still though, Rip Van's bullet actually gets multiple hits on the Blackbird as it's doing a suicide dive at mach 3, blasting through it and then curving around to come back for another hit multiple times so it's, at minimum, considerably faster than mach 3 and Alucard does catch it in his teeth.

  8. #8
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Having checked, you are correct. As noted, it's been a hot minute since I read Hellsing.

    Still though, Rip Van's bullet actually gets multiple hits on the Blackbird as it's doing a suicide dive at mach 3, blasting through it and then curving around to come back for another hit multiple times so it's, at minimum, considerably faster than mach 3 and Alucard does catch it in his teeth.
    And does so casually and easily. I don't think that Dio is beating an Alucard who's taking things seriously.

    If the World's time skip acted like that, where the world is literally frozen and he's dancing through it, maybe, but it doesn't, really. It can be sped through if one is sufficiently quick (Jotaro and SP), and Alucard is quicker than anything I've seen in Jojo. Mileage may vary.
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  9. #9
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    If the World's time skip acted like that, where the world is literally frozen and he's dancing through it, maybe, but it doesn't, really. It can be sped through if one is sufficiently quick (Jotaro and SP)
    ... this might be me not quite understanding what you've put here but; what are you talking about?

    The World stops time. Flat out, that's what it does. Jotaro didn't break through it by dint of speed, he was resistant to it because Star Platinum has the same powers as the World.

  10. #10
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    ... this might be me not quite understanding what you've put here but; what are you talking about?

    The World stops time. Flat out, that's what it does. Jotaro didn't break through it by dint of speed, he was resistant to it because Star Platinum has the same powers as the World.
    I guess. I thought it was odd that Jotaro and SP did better and better against it. It would seem to me that either you are immune (you can live in the time skip) or you aren't (and you're just locked for the duration). Not that you can do a little and then more and more and more as it goes along. Maybe it's just my mistaken impression. I watched it a while ago.

    And to be fair, Goku does this to Hit. He, in classic Goku style, just, er, goes faster?
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
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  11. #11
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    I guess. I thought it was odd that Jotaro and SP did better and better against it. It would seem to me that either you are immune (you can live in the time skip) or you aren't (and you're just locked for the duration). Not that you can do a little and then more and more and more as it goes along. Maybe it's just my mistaken impression. I watched it a while ago.
    To just put this clearly, in case other people are unsure, The World and Star Platinum can both stop time for a number of subjective seconds [as in, as perceived from the users perspective while in the timestop]. Also, Stands grow stronger and more powerful the more you work with their abilities or through personal growth on the part of the user. Initially, upon on unlocking his Stand Dio can only stop time for an instant but grows to the point where he ends up being able to stop time for a total of eleven seconds [from his perspective].

    Jotaro wasn't aware he had the ability at all and so, like Dio, could only move for an instant in the frozen time at first but, through the extreme circumstances of fighting Dio and repeated exposure to the situation of attempting to move in frozen time, he eventually got to the point where he could do it for five seconds [from his perspective].

    Towards the end of the fight, Dio stopped time and did the whole road roller bit but Jotaro also stopped time nine subjective seconds into Dio's initial timestop so the total subjective duration of the timestop went beyond Dio's ability to move within it and then Jotaro counter-attacked him and broke his legs because he could still move freely while Dio could not.

    It's also worth noting that, for whatever reason, even if Dio or Jotaro can't/don't move within the time stop, they aware of the subjective seconds. Their minds are completely immune to time being stopped.

    And to be fair, Goku does this to Hit. He, in classic Goku style, just, er, goes faster?
    A completely different series and Hit doesn't even stop time so I'm not seeing how this is all that relevant.

  12. #12
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Off topic, but Nik has a Stand.

    Broadsides and Boarders*. ^_^

    * from the pre-board-wipe 'Give another poster a Stand' thread.
    Why are we here?

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  13. #13
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    To just put this clearly, in case other people are unsure, The World and Star Platinum can both stop time for a number of subjective seconds [as in, as perceived from the users perspective while in the timestop]. Also, Stands grow stronger and more powerful the more you work with their abilities or through personal growth on the part of the user. Initially, upon on unlocking his Stand Dio can only stop time for an instant but grows to the point where he ends up being able to stop time for a total of eleven seconds [from his perspective].

    Jotaro wasn't aware he had the ability at all and so, like Dio, could only move for an instant in the frozen time at first but, through the extreme circumstances of fighting Dio and repeated exposure to the situation of attempting to move in frozen time, he eventually got to the point where he could do it for five seconds [from his perspective].

    Towards the end of the fight, Dio stopped time and did the whole road roller bit but Jotaro also stopped time nine subjective seconds into Dio's initial timestop so the total subjective duration of the timestop went beyond Dio's ability to move within it and then Jotaro counter-attacked him and broke his legs because he could still move freely while Dio could not.

    It's also worth noting that, for whatever reason, even if Dio or Jotaro can't/don't move within the time stop, they aware of the subjective seconds. Their minds are completely immune to time being stopped.
    That last bit is why it doesn't really work like a true time stop for me. If time is stopped and you are outside the effect completely, then you (and time) aren't stopped. However, I'm not going to argue this with you - it's not important enough to me and I'm going off having watched the series once. I don't recall them ever explicitly mentioning that somehow their two minds are immune to other people's timestops. And, of course, Jotaro clearly wasn't aware of everything happening early on, or at least he didn't do anything to show that he was aware of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    A completely different series and Hit doesn't even stop time so I'm not seeing how this is all that relevant.
    Hit's time skip seems to operate on exactly the same principle as The World's time stop. It's also described in the same way. The user of the power is effectively free to act in a frozen world for the duration of the skip/stop. It's how it is presented. In Hit's case, this initially lets him slaughter a completely helpless SSB Vegeta, just like Dio against... everyone not named Jotaro. Goku then beats it by... going faster? It shouldn't matter how fast you go, since you should be stuck in a freeze frame. In bringing it up, I was basically allowing that time skip/stop powers are written funny, almost like the authors aren't writing them with Rumbles in mind or something.

    In a world with "real" time skip/stop, the "winner" would be whoever uses the power first, because the other person wouldn't be able to act to activate their power at all during the "stop", because they are frozen in between moments. Sure, the Shrike could do something about it, having explicit feats for it, but not many other beings could.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
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  14. #14
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Off topic, but Nik has a Stand.

    Broadsides and Boarders*. ^_^

    * from the pre-board-wipe 'Give another poster a Stand' thread.
    A good callback haha.

    As another aside, having been looking through Hellsing again for this thread, I one day hope to have the sheer level of job satisfaction that Alucard has. Dude absolutely loves his job and pretty much everything about it to an absurd degree.

    Him like "A secret cabal of Nazi vampires and the assembled holy armies of the Catholic Church all want to engineer a giant conspiracy, murder hundreds of people and plunge the world into war all in an effort to specifically to kill me? This is RAD!"

    More pertinently, the different mechanics of blood in this match might be significant. JJBA vampires absorb blood through their skin but, in Hellsing, blood is specifically the medium for the soul. If you are a true vampire who feeds correctly, when you drink someone or something's blood, you absorb their soul into you and they become a familiar, an additional presence in your mind, an additional powerset and an additional form.

    Dio being eaten by Alucard actually presents something of a metaphysical question. Could he retain his sense of self amidst the whirling vortex of souls and blood that is Alucard?

  15. #15
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    That last bit is why it doesn't really work like a true time stop for me. If time is stopped and you are outside the effect completely, then you (and time) aren't stopped. However, I'm not going to argue this with you - it's not important enough to me and I'm going off having watched the series once. I don't recall them ever explicitly mentioning that somehow their two minds are immune to other people's timestops. And, of course, Jotaro clearly wasn't aware of everything happening early on, or at least he didn't do anything to show that he was aware of it.
    I'll hardly be the first to admit that JJBA isn't a fine bastion of consistency. My point about their minds is that the text draws a hard line between "thinking" in the frozen time and "moving" in the frozen time. When Dio stops time and runs off to find a steamroller, Jotaro is frozen in place [in time] but is capable of thinking and is like "I can only move for a few seconds so I have to pick my spot carefully, I will wait before I use my movement,"

    Also, to your point of him not being aware of it initially, he was only capable of "moving" within the frozen time for an instant once he knew that such a thing was possible and then his ability grew. It reads like, because he didn't know he could do it, that aspect of his Stand Ability hadn't manifested at that time so he was completely frozen.

    I'm also not going to get into the mechanics of Hit's timeskip ability and it's distinction from a timestop because it's not relevant. Suffice to say, it's a needlessly technical thing that mimics the effect of timestop without stopping time. Though Hit does go on to later get a timestop ability that does, apparently, freeze opponents in time.

    The above taken from a wiki because I don't have any mental brainspace dedicated to Dragonball any more.

    In a world with "real" time skip/stop, the "winner" would be whoever uses the power first, because the other person wouldn't be able to act to activate their power at all during the "stop", because they are frozen in between moments. Sure, the Shrike could do something about it, having explicit feats for it, but not many other beings could.
    Except, as noted Jotaro could because, as discussed above, he is mentally immune to time stops even if he himself didn't instigate them. Dio and Jotaro are both shown to be conscious for the duration of a timestop. They are aware of the time between actual time.
    Last edited by Nik Hasta; 10-28-2021 at 09:14 AM.

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