Should Jean stay with Scott, pair up with Logan or Bishop, or be single?

[Ra-El]

I see some negative points in X-Men: Red, but overall I really like it. At the same time, I’m glad it wasn’t a book that lasted too long.

It seems to me that nowadays everyone wants their favourites to be front and centre, all the time, in what would be almost like a solo book that happens to have other characters as part of the team.

And I just don’t like it. I miss the old comics when the writers managed to juggle the whole team and all characters felt like they belong there.

Perhaps that’s the problem that people have with Scott and Jean together. Before 2000s, they were not the centre of every story. They were some of the most important characters in their teams because of their gravitas, but the other characters weren’t support characters to them.

Jean dies and Scott becomes the leader, having a prominent role in across many books.

Jean comes back while Scott is dead and gets one of those solo-team books.

I’m not sure if people can see that their problem might not be with their relationship itself, but the fact they’re blaming the relationship because they want their favourites in those central roles, as if it was the relationship that prevented it to happen.

It’s weird… But I guess I have to accept that comic book readers nowadays don’t like actual team books as much, I guess. All that matters is that their favourites are powerful either politically, or by leadership role or by mutant power level…

I always liked solo books more, one of the reasons why DC usually atract me more.

I'm a Cyclops fan, not a X-Men one, If he isn't in the book probably I not gonna read it. So you're right, all I want is a Cyclops solo, after that wahtever happens with the X-Men isn't really important to me. Not who leads the team, Krakoa, etc. Just give Cyclops hanging out in Alaska, no need of anyone guest starring.

[Grinning Soul]

I always liked solo books more, one of the reasons why DC usually atract me more.

I'm a Cyclops fan, not a X-Men one, If he isn't in the book probably I not gonna read it. So you're right, all I want is a Cyclops solo, after that wahtever happens with the X-Men isn't really important to me. Not who leads the team, Krakoa, etc. Just give Cyclops hanging out in Alaska, no need of anyone guest starring.

All right. But you'd like it to be an ongoing or a limited series?

Scott is one of my favourites but I find it hard to imagine him as a lone wolf. Would you want him to find himself leading something? Surrounded by secondary characters who don't really matter but so he could still have a leadership role?

[Darrin Kelley]

I don't care how prominent a character is, so long as the writer actually does the character justice in their portrayals.

Jean and Scott together have always been a relationship that diminished both characters. Stunted their growth as individuals. Which makes stories about both of them boring.

The last thing I want to read about is a boring Jean Grey.

[Grinning Soul]

I don't care how prominent a character is, so long as the writer actually does the character justice in their portrayals.

Jean and Scott together have always been a relationship that diminished both characters. Stunted their growth as individuals. Which makes stories about both of them boring.

The last thing I want to read about is a boring Jean Grey.

I see people saying this over and over again but they never say why. Out of curiosity:

1) What do you consider individual growth for a character?
2) How was their relationship an impediment to it?

[Darrin Kelley]

I see people saying this over and over again but they never say why. Out of curiosity:

1) What do you consider individual growth for a character?
2) How was their relationship an impediment to it?

Because it is a relationship with no risks or challenges. It's safe. Ever-present as the thing both characters can just drop back into without any effort.

Because of that, so long as either of them are in that relationship, the characters don't have to actually grow as people. It's always there. Static. Unmoving, ungrowing.

[Grinning Soul]

Because it is a relationship with no risks or challenges. It's safe. Ever-present as the thing both characters can just drop back into without any effort.

Because of that, so long as either of them are in that relationship, the characters don't have to actually grow as people. It's always there. Static. Unmoving, ungrowing.

You didn't actually answer my questions. But thanks for your reply.

[Darrin Kelley]

You didn't actually answer my questions. But thanks for your reply.

Actually, I did. It just wasn't in the form you wanted.

So much of Scott and Jean's personalities have been defined by that relationship. To the point that they hardly have an existence, as people, outside of it.

What can you say about either of them that isn't defined by them being together?

What more is there to them? Who are they as people individually? And what about their individual voices? Where are they? What are they?

[Grinning Soul]

Actually, I did. It just wasn't in the form you wanted.

So much of Scott and Jean's personalities have been defined by that relationship. To the point that they hardly have an existence, as people, outside of it.

What can you say about either of them that isn't defined by them being together?

What more is there to them? Who are they as people individually? And what about their individual voices? Where are they? What are they?

Let's make a deal. I'll answer you if you answer me?

1) What do you consider individual growth for a character?

[Mercury]

I'm a Cyclops fan, not a X-Men one, If he isn't in the book probably I not gonna read it. So you're right, all I want is a Cyclops solo, after that wahtever happens with the X-Men isn't really important to me. Not who leads the team, Krakoa, etc. Just give Cyclops hanging out in Alaska, no need of anyone guest starring.

This is incredibly sweet. It's also how I feel about Jean. I always find it both fascinating and endearing how much some of us can grow to love these characters.

[Darrin Kelley]

Let's make a deal. I'll answer you if you answer me?

1) What do you consider individual growth for a character?

Any character traits that are not defined by them being in a relationship with each other. Their own individuality as people. Their own opinions, their own voices. Which just happens to be what makes them engaging as characters. Who they are as people. And how those elements evolve during the years of reading about them.

More of the same isn't going to satisfy me as a reader. Jean has already had her fling with Logan. And she always has Scott to be her safe space. I want to see what more there is to her. What makes her heroic and interesting.

[Grinning Soul]

Any character traits that are not defined by them being in a relationship with each other. Their own individuality as people. Their own opinions, their own voices. Which just happens to be what makes them engaging as characters. Who they are as people. And how those elements evolve during the years of reading about them.

More of the same isn't going to satisfy me as a reader. Jean has already had her fling with Logan. And she always has Scott to be her safe space. I want to see what more there is to her. What makes her heroic and interesting.

That's not individual growth, though. But okay. Fair is fair.

I'll start with your question: "What can you say about either of them that isn't defined by them being together?"

The short answer is: their whole personalities. Would you like me to list some of those personality traits?

[Darrin Kelley]

This is incredibly sweet. It's also how I feel about Jean. I always find it both fascinating and endearing how much some of us can grow to love these characters.

I found Jean the most interesting during the early X-Factor years, when she was antagonistic toward Scott for going off and dumping his wife and kid. The tension between them was very real and understandable. And I grew to like Jean more because of the apparent moral stand she was taking.

[Grinning Soul]

I found Jean the most interesting during the early X-Factor years, when she was antagonistic toward Scott for going off and dumping his wife and kid. The tension between them was very real and understandable. And I grew to like Jean more because of the apparent moral stand she was taking.

Okay... But the temper and the "moral stand" was nothing new for her. The only thing that was new was that they were fighting with each other every now and then...

You do see that their personalities are part of each character individually? That is has nothing to do with their relationship?

[Darrin Kelley]

That's not individual growth, though. But okay. Fair is fair.

I'll start with your question: "What can you say about either of them that isn't defined by them being together?"

The short answer is: their whole personalities. Would you like me to list some of those personality traits?

What personalities? Jean is still "the girl" in a team that was mostly male-dominated. She didn't have much definition beyond that and her relationship with Cyclops. She went on to be the girl who had a fling with the bad boy. That isn't growth. That's being a stereotype. Not a person. The important parts of her personality were left undefined.

I've read so many X-Men books over the decades and watched all of the movies. And I honestly can't tell you a single thing that made Jean Grey a hero. And not just a hanger-on.

And her current state? She's been reduced to being a fetish object. Where is her personhood?

[Grinning Soul]

What personalities? Jean is still "the girl" in a team that was mostly male-dominated. She didn't have much definition beyond that and her relationship with Cyclops. She went on to be the girl who had a fling with the bad boy. That isn't growth. That's being a stereotype. Not a person. The important parts of her personality were left undefined.

I've read so many X-Men books over the decades and watched all of the movies. And I honestly can't tell you a single thing that made Jean Grey a hero. And not just a hanger-on.

Oh, boy... Let me ask you something so we potentially save both of our times here: is there anything I could say that might make you maybe reconsider your perspective? 'Cause if not... well, I'd say let's agree to disagree?