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  1. #1
    Y'know. Pav's Avatar
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    Default AMAZING #77 Review and Spoilers: The Benaissance Continues

    Hello, Friends of Ben! Our boy is still Spider-Man!

    I've had a looong day, but I refuse to let an issue of Benny Boy's run go without a proper thread!

    Quick Summary:

    If you haven't read the issue, go buy it -- especially if you like Spidey-Clones fighting ninjas, bionic women, and living vampires; and ESPECIALLY if you like subplots: Aunt May in action! Beyond being weird! Janine just chillin! Etc!

    Some quick thoughts:

    1) The memory thing obviously stands out. My first thought was the first signs of clone degeneration, which is bad enough; but I'm definitely intrigued by some of the ideas others have brought up here, including the notion that Beyond is maybe "erasing" Ben somehow. I also like the potential connection with Peter's dream about Uncle Ben. Are Peter and Ben connected beyond just genetics? Is something otherworldly happening to them both?

    2) I love that Aunt May sees no other choice than ringing up Otto Octavius! Their relationship was very silver-age, so how it's played out in a modern context will be fun to see. Beyond that, I'm hoping that he being at Aunt May's beck and call also reaffirms my hope that he's going to continue being a "shades of gray" character rather than the cackling mad scientist he's sometimes presented as.

    3) I didn't mind the art, but I'm not a fan of how Morbius looks -- although I do know it's supposed to connect back to his last miniseries (which was, of course, mediocre at best). I still say Morbius' best looks are the black costume from his 90s solo and the way he was portrayed in PP:SM #70somethings by John Romita Jr.

    4) Ben and Dr. Kafka had a pretty normal conversation considering she was created in a lab by him.

    5) I wonder if the inclusion of Misty and Colleen is directly due to Misty and Ben being together in Cantwell's Iron Man run. Otherwise, I've yet to really see a purpose for them other than maybe affection for the characters by the creative team -- which is fine! I don't mind them at all. Just wondering how their role is going to play out meaningfully.

    6) Oh, right -- there's no way Morbius is biting through Ben's costume.

    7) One thing I really appreciated was the way Ben approached the situation with Morbius. Whereas Peter is sometimes portrayed as apathetic towards Morbius' plight, I was glad to see Ben have a little compassion for the guy. It's always fun to see how characters with relationships to Peter as Spidey (friendly, antagonistic, or otherwise) end up relating towards Ben.

    8) What if Ben brings Morbius into Beyond and he's added to the "team?!" Ben, Morbius, and the Daughters of the Dragon are the beginnings of a very a cool team, and I always enjoyed how Ben bounced off the other New Warriors when he was a member.

    9) Totally random, but according to Marcus, Beyond had other options if Ben didn't want to be THEIR Spider-Man. So if and when Ben turns on Beyond, what if they send their other choices after him: Joe Wade, Patrick the MVP Clone, and KAINE?! Ben vs THREE SCARLET SPIDERS would be epic as all get out!

    -Pav, whose brain just kinda stopped right there so until next time...
    Last edited by Pav; 10-27-2021 at 08:20 PM.
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  2. #2
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    On the note of Ben’s conversation with Kafka, there was the ominous notion where Ben couldn’t completely recall Peter’s childhood memory. Could they Beyond Corporation have done something to him or could this be an effect of his many deaths and reclonings?

  3. #3
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    6)Morbius may have amps, Ben says so in the end and even though not as smart he's still near Peter Parker intellect.

    7)Agreed, tbf Peter used to(and still does) help him out for the most part and he's fought him multiple times now(he even stole Billy Conner's body once) so I get it.

    9)If you've read their issues before ASM, Beyond is extremely powerful and pretty sure has multiple avenues to get themselves a Spidey.Pretty sure they could clone Ben himself...

  4. #4
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    I felt okay about this issue, but didn’t like it as much as 75/76 (nor did I think it was mediocre as a couple posters did). It was fine, but read a bit like filler. I’d give it about a 6.5 or 7/10.

    I’ll give my pros and cons.

    Pros:

    -Liked the conversation between Kafka and Ben. Ben’s memory gap is interesting and might be related to Peter seeing a faceless Uncle Ben in his dream.

    -Good dialogue between Ben and Janine.

    -Always like to see Morbius.

    -Everyone is acting mostly in character.

    -Cameo by Felicia

    -Aunt May’s risky request for help from a certain Doctor

    -Ben’s adventures in space as SS with Iron-Man and Misty FINALLY acknowledged!

    Cons:

    -The art isn’t horrendous, but definitely a step down from the smooth pencils of Gleason. For that matter so is the writing (again, it’s fine, but not as good as Wells).

    -I already hate this Maxine Danger character (and not in a “so evil she’s hateable” way, more like “she’s annoying” way). They’re making fun of Kafka’s name in the book, but we’re supposed to take a character with the last name “Danger” seriously? I also don’t like how Ben just takes the BS she’s saying to him without pushing back.

    -The background scenes of humorous things happening while Maxine was talking to Ben were very cartoonish, forced, distracting and tonally inconsistent with the scene taking place.

    -Ben is acting very inexperienced in his interactions with Morbius and Misty/Colleen. This isn’t the Ben who single-handedly took down the U-Foes just last issue, is it?

    -Only one panel of Peter comatose. I realize it’s the situation he’s in, but still.

    - While I like the dialogue between Ben and Janine, is her role always just to be hanging out in the apartment for a couple pages each issue? I wouldn’t have believed it a couple issues ago, but now I agree with those who say she’s being set up for a fridging.

    Anyway, that’s about it. A pretty inconsequential and inoffensive issue with a couple of good bits, not-good bits and a whole lot of filler in between, like I said. Hope things pick up next issue!

  5. #5
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    The head of Beyond's superhero program is named Max(ine) Danger.

    I'm sure that's not meta or anything.

    Ben's memory issue and Peter's dream. Can't be a coincidence. I'm curious where this is going.

    Pichelli's art was a mixed bag. Some pages/panels were excellent, others felt quite rough. Not on the same level as Gleason from 75/76.

    Decent but not great. Still, some interesting developments.

  6. #6
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    Ben's suit is wired as hell, Beyond could be messing with his head to make him their mindless puppet (Marcus was "angry" because of Ben actions, Beyond clearly has a problem with too much freedom).
    I hope this (#77) Ben isn't another clone of Ben...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pav View Post
    Hello, Friends of Ben! Our boy is still Spider-Man!

    I've had a looong day, but I refuse to let an issue of Benny Boy's run go without a proper thread!

    Quick Summary:

    If you haven't read the issue, go buy it -- especially if you like Spidey-Clones fighting ninjas, bionic women, and living vampires; and ESPECIALLY if you like subplots: Aunt May in action! Beyond being weird! Janine just chillin! Etc!

    Some quick thoughts:

    1) The memory thing obviously stands out. My first thought was the first signs of clone degeneration, which is bad enough; but I'm definitely intrigued by some of the ideas others have brought up here, including the notion that Beyond is maybe "erasing" Ben somehow. I also like the potential connection with Peter's dream about Uncle Ben. Are Peter and Ben connected beyond just genetics? Is something otherworldly happening to them both?

    2) I love that Aunt May sees no other choice than ringing up Otto Octavius! Their relationship was very silver-age, so how it's played out in a modern context will be fun to see. Beyond that, I'm hoping that he being at Aunt May's beck and call also reaffirms my hope that he's going to continue being a "shades of gray" character rather than the cackling mad scientist he's sometimes presented as.

    3) I didn't mind the art, but I'm not a fan of how Morbius looks -- although I do know it's supposed to connect back to his last miniseries (which was, of course, mediocre at best). I still say Morbius' best looks are the black costume from his 90s solo and the way he was portrayed in PP:SM #70somethings by John Romita Jr.

    4) Ben and Dr. Kafka had a pretty normal conversation considering she was created in a lab by him.

    5) I wonder if the inclusion of Misty and Colleen is directly due to Misty and Ben being together in Cantwell's Iron Man run. Otherwise, I've yet to really see a purpose for them other than maybe affection for the characters by the creative team -- which is fine! I don't mind them at all. Just wondering how their role is going to play out meaningfully.

    6) Oh, right -- there's no way Morbius is biting through Ben's costume.

    7) One thing I really appreciated was the way Ben approached the situation with Morbius. Whereas Peter is sometimes portrayed as apathetic towards Morbius' plight, I was glad to see Ben have a little compassion for the guy. It's always fun to see how characters with relationships to Peter as Spidey (friendly, antagonistic, or otherwise) end up relating towards Ben.

    8) What if Ben brings Morbius into Beyond and he's added to the "team?!" Ben, Morbius, and the Daughters of the Dragon are the beginnings of a very a cool team, and I always enjoyed how Ben bounced off the other New Warriors when he was a member.

    9) Totally random, but according to Marcus, Beyond had other options if Ben didn't want to be THEIR Spider-Man. So if and when Ben turns on Beyond, what if they send their other choices after him: Joe Wade, Patrick the MVP Clone, and KAINE?! Ben vs THREE SCARLET SPIDERS would be epic as all get out!

    -Pav, whose brain just kinda stopped right there so until next time...
    A couple of points: Peter really dislikes Morbius. The only guys I think he hates more are Norman, Fisk, Eddie, Harry and maybe Cletus and Morlun. Even Otto and Kraven are not despised like Morbius. As for the memories: Ben needs his own identity so getting rid of Peter’s memories could be a good thing. To be successful he needs to be be more then the clone of Peter.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    A couple of points: Peter really dislikes Morbius. The only guys I think he hates more are Norman, Fisk, Eddie, Harry and maybe Cletus and Morlun. Even Otto and Kraven are not despised like Morbius. As for the memories: Ben needs his own identity so getting rid of Peter’s memories could be a good thing. To be successful he needs to be be more then the clone of Peter.
    Not so with Eddie anymore. Those guys were hanging out having coffee in Cates Venom run. I think the only person Peter truly hates with a passion is Norman. The rest are give or take depending on the writer.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    A couple of points: Peter really dislikes Morbius. The only guys I think he hates more are Norman, Fisk, Eddie, Harry and maybe Cletus and Morlun. Even Otto and Kraven are not despised like Morbius. As for the memories: Ben needs his own identity so getting rid of Peter’s memories could be a good thing. To be successful he needs to be be more then the clone of Peter.
    What story or line of dialogue are you basing that on? (And Peter doesn’t “hate” Harry… he feels sorry for him, if anything)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    What story or line of dialogue are you basing that on? (And Peter doesn’t “hate” Harry… he feels sorry for him, if anything)
    As far as Morbius is concerned read almost any issue, he just does not like him. Kingpin goes back to the attack on Aunt May. As far as Harry is concerned the legacy of evil one shot gave me the impression he dislikes Harry almost as much as Norman. The part about Eddie is fair and I will not rank him above Morbius in the dislike department.

  11. #11
    Y'know. Pav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    What story or line of dialogue are you basing that on? (And Peter doesn’t “hate” Harry… he feels sorry for him, if anything)
    The relationship between Peter and Morbius can be a little all over the place. Some writers portray Peter as sympathetic towards Morbius and his condition; but there are plenty of times when Peter has been a legit jerk to Morbius, treating him worse than some of his more psychotic villains.

    I actually kind of like it. I think Morbius symbolizes one of Peter's greatest fears: that he could've just as easily turned into a monster as a hero. So the irrational hatred Peter has towards Morbius makes sense in my head canon.

    As I said earlier, I appreciate when we get to see Ben react different to certain individuals: Human Torch and Sandman back in the 90s, for example, and now Morbius here.

    -Pav, who would kill for a Morbius series that was actually good...
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  12. #12
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    I wish Morbius was a REAL vampire instead of some guy with an illness who needs to drink fresh plasma to alleviate symptoms, or whatever VINO (Vampire In Name Only) he’s supposed to be. That’s always bothered me about the character. Comic Code has been dead for decades. Time for Marvel to retcon him as a real vampiric being.

  13. #13
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    So. Between the leverage Beyond is putting together on Ben (Janine, whatever he's saying in his sessions with Kafka), and now the suggestion that something might be happening to Ben's memories (though also potentially Peter's, so it's not clear what exactly is going on yet) it sure looks like they are setting Ben up for a heel turn at some point here. Either blackmailed, mentally reprogrammed or some combination of both. Throw in the upcoming stuff with Miles, which sure looks like Beyond isolating Ben from any potential allies/distractions. And now the latest solicits which suggest Ben suffering a big loss to Ock. A loss which could prime Ben to actively make a choice that we won't like. Like, for example, upgrading himself via Beyond and opening the door to even more shenanigans.

    I begin to worry.

    It then occurs to me that Peter's dream from ASM75 could be a metaphor for clone Ben's corruption by Beyond, as opposed to anything relating to Uncle Ben. All that man in the mirror setup.

    And I worry.

    This isn't going to end well for our boy. I'm getting Knightfall vibes, where Peter is going to have to defeat Ben to save everyone from whatever monster Beyond has turned him into. I hope there's a swerve coming somewhere.

  14. #14
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    Ben also seems to be having trouble finding some words. I wonder if that's related to the memory loss

  15. #15
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    - Arc literally starts telling us how important the memories of Uncle Ben are to Peter's character.
    - Ben is losing said memories.
    Yep, I'm worried for Ben's future.

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