AMAZING #77 Review and Spoilers: The Benaissance Continues

[Jman27]

Understandable, under these circumstances. At least the writers are trying to show that she's not (completely) helpless and frail just because she's old.

plus how many times has Peter been worrying about her health and gone thru extreme measures to save her. hmmm you think if Otto fails she can do a mephisto deal?

[David Walton]

I respectfully disagree. Ben's contradictory nature as "Peter but not Peter" is what has locked him in as my favorite character in all of Literature for the past twenty-five years, despite even the lengthy amount of time he was excluded from Spidey comics. I would argue that his status as "the perfect Spider-Clone" is incredibly substantive and is what intrigued so many of his fans from the start -- and to this day. In fact, I'd argue moving too far away from that status is what killed Clone Conspiracy and especially BR:SS.

Some argue that being too similar to Peter makes him superfluous -- but that's kind of the whole point of his character! What is he supposed to do with himself if he can't live the life he believes is his? This existential plight is at the heart of the character; remove it, and the magic of the character is lost.

-Pav, who does think Ben and Kaine have become too similar and work best with their original positions as "perfect clone" and "flawed clone" in place...

I could not agree more, I like/thumbs up this post a thousand percent.

[Spiderfan001]

I respectfully disagree. Ben's contradictory nature as "Peter but not Peter" is what has locked him in as my favorite character in all of Literature for the past twenty-five years, despite even the lengthy amount of time he was excluded from Spidey comics. I would argue that his status as "the perfect Spider-Clone" is incredibly substantive and is what intrigued so many of his fans from the start -- and to this day. In fact, I'd argue moving too far away from that status is what killed Clone Conspiracy and especially BR:SS.

Some argue that being too similar to Peter makes him superfluous -- but that's kind of the whole point of his character! What is he supposed to do with himself if he can't live the life he believes is his? This existential plight is at the heart of the character; remove it, and the magic of the character is lost.

-Pav, who does think Ben and Kaine have become too similar and work best with their original positions as "perfect clone" and "flawed clone" in place...

But that brings you back to the problem of growth.

"Ben's contradictory nature as "Peter but not Peter" is what has locked him in as my favorite character in all of Literature for the past twenty-five years, despite even the lengthy amount of time he was excluded from Spidey comics."

That lengthy amount of time he was gone is what made it so this aspect was still interesting IMO, 2 and a half decades of "Peter but not" would get really boring really fast.

"I would argue that his status as "the perfect Spider-Clone" is incredibly substantive and is what intrigued so many of his fans from the start -- and to this day. In fact, I'd argue moving too far away from that status is what killed Clone Conspiracy and especially BR:SS."

Agreed, it was a great hook and had a lot of meat that was beautifully executed.But it runs out, doing that same thing over and over again.
They moved too far and in the wrong direction as well, if you are going to use a "Peter but not" character in 616 then he instead of making big changes to his character you have to make big changes to his setting/surroundings.

"Some argue that being too similar to Peter makes him superfluous -- but that's kind of the whole point of his character!"

He is a bit superfluous, most new readers I interacted w/ either online(Twitter, Youtube comments, Instagram) where the mass hasn't been reading comics for so long that they read og Ben aren't excited by the "Peter but not" idea and won't likely follow him out of ASM.This isn't to say he doesn't deserve to be a part of the comics, since it's his execution that made many fans love him which new readers(by which I mean who haven't read clone saga and og Ben) haven't experienced

As for it being the whole point of the character, an analogy that I think works is the Spider-Cat relationship.The entire point of it was to be a women who liked Spider-man but did not care for Peter, but over the decades it grew into something else and (IMO) Better.
Ben's existential crisis is a great hook but he needs more, this isn't to say they should abandon it but just that he needs to be more than the concept of "Peter but not" to attract/sustain a new audience.

"What is he supposed to do with himself if he can't live the life he believes is his? This existential plight is at the heart of the character"

I agree but when does he figure it out?It's been decades of Ben and if that's still his main appeal it weakens over time.He should never loose this but it needs to be built upon which entails picking a (better)direction to take the character

"remove it, and the magic of the character is lost."

If that one question is the only appeal of the character then it's concerning long term.It works for a run or 2(even a 100 issues), but unless he grows and reaches a conclusion it's meaningless

"who does think Ben and Kaine have become too similar and work best with their original positions as "perfect clone" and "flawed clone" in place"

I agree that the direction they took the 2(specially Ben) were disappointing at best.They should try and rebuild a new path for Ben which his fans find suitable while also intriguing to new readers.


Also I wanted to say this a while back but I apologize for being disrespectful to you a while back, it was uncalled for.I'd DM you but I feel like it's more appropriate to say it here since you weren't the only one affected.

[MisterC]

I’d argue that that wouldn’t be a necessary or a good thing. Ben has Peter’s memories but only up until a certain point. Beyond that, he has his own memories of the life that he’s lived as himself. Peter’s memories are what give him his heroic core and his life experience is what shaped him into the man that he is. He’s always going to be Peter’s clone but they don’t have all of the same experiences that make their differences.

Agreed. Stripping Ben of Pete's memories makes him no one. Just another random with powers who gets killed by a shitty new villain.

Hard pass.

[Pav]

Also I wanted to say this a while back but I apologize for being disrespectful to you a while back, it was uncalled for.I'd DM you but I feel like it's more appropriate to say it here since you weren't the only one affected.

No worries, friend. Glad to have you participating in a positive, constructive way. Your passion for Spidey comics is clear and our conversations are richer now due to your contributions!

As for the points you made regarding Ben needing something MORE than "being Peter but not," I guess I'd say old-school fans of the character don't need much more; I could read stories about Ben's existential dilemma indefinitely! But you make a good point that new readers (or readers who don't dig deep philosophical conflicts) may need something beyond that to get them interested in following the character long-term. As you mentioned yourself with the Black Cat example, there's nothing wrong with characters growing and evolving; it's necessary! But the heart of what makes the character special can never be forgotten, and I think Ben's status as "Peter but not" always needs to be there. Otherwise, nothing much separates him from Miles or Kaine or any other secondary Spider-Man.

-Pav, who likes to wear his Scarlet Spider hoodie to work each year when Halloween rolls around...

[Spiderfan001]

No worries, friend. Glad to have you participating in a positive, constructive way. Your passion for Spidey comics is clear and our conversations are richer now due to your contributions!

As for the points you made regarding Ben needing something MORE than "being Peter but not," I guess I'd say old-school fans of the character don't need much more; I could read stories about Ben's existential dilemma indefinitely! But you make a good point that new readers (or readers who don't dig deep philosophical conflicts) may need something beyond that to get them interested in following the character long-term. As you mentioned yourself with the Black Cat example, there's nothing wrong with characters growing and evolving; it's necessary! But the heart of what makes the character special can never be forgotten, and I think Ben's status as "Peter but not" always needs to be there. Otherwise, nothing much separates him from Miles or Kaine or any other secondary Spider-Man.

-Pav, who likes to wear his Scarlet Spider hoodie to work each year when Halloween rolls around...

Thanks

Definitely, they should keep that at his core while trying to build on it.

Also https://www.instagram.com/p/CVkNgKqlSFg/ Thoughts on this?

I think the D panel has Ben's face on the right(a couple others agree) which Beg's the question, whose the Spider-man?

[DrewHLMW]

This issue was a massive step down from 75 and 76.

First of all its slow and boring, the scenes in the beyond corp and therapy sessions bored the life outta me. Maxine has the stupidest bowl haircut I'v ever seen in a comic, i cant take anything about her seriously.

Sara's artwork is off, i dunno what exactly is wrong with it but just feels off, i know she is so much better than what we get in this book. Kafka and Mj's faces are off and why does aunt may have bigger boobs than the former super model XD

The two page spread with ben's training is pretty bad too, Colleen is swinging at the middle of the page which Ben is miles away from, she wasnt even close to hitting him, the dialogue also doesn't flow well with the position of the bubbles and neither make much sence if you read from left to right or top to bottom.

Then we come to the end of the book, Morbius looks cartoonish instead of monstrous, he's not scary and Ben says he's covered in blood but there is literally not a drop of blood to be seen in the entire conflict even when Morbius "bites" Ben.

No this book was poor compared to the last two, Kelly's writing wasnt great which is a shame because her work on Rogue & Gambit / Mr & Mrs. X was fantastic but this sucked.

the only interesting part of this book was ben's tampered with memory.

[Shunt]

I respectfully disagree. Ben's contradictory nature as "Peter but not Peter" is what has locked him in as my favorite character in all of Literature for the past twenty-five years, despite even the lengthy amount of time he was excluded from Spidey comics. I would argue that his status as "the perfect Spider-Clone" is incredibly substantive and is what intrigued so many of his fans from the start -- and to this day. In fact, I'd argue moving too far away from that status is what killed Clone Conspiracy and especially BR:SS.

Some argue that being too similar to Peter makes him superfluous -- but that's kind of the whole point of his character! What is he supposed to do with himself if he can't live the life he believes is his? This existential plight is at the heart of the character; remove it, and the magic of the character is lost.

-Pav, who does think Ben and Kaine have become too similar and work best with their original positions as "perfect clone" and "flawed clone" in place...

Absolutely spot on.

Besides, "being Peter but not" means, in a way, more freedom from a storytelling point of view. You can do some stories with the character that wouldn't be approved with the mainstrean version, and still be canon.

(And no, I don't have in mind crap like Clone Conspiracy)

[Malachi]

Well I think this is KT's first Spider-man comic. Overall it was fine enough. Not something to remember but no obvious missteps. To verbose and as some other has said boring.

I can buy Ben being eager to please and insecure because of the whole Slott&PAD thing but it doesn't make for an engaging protaganist. I want him to be more active and intelligent. Someone like Maxine might be in power but it doesn't feel fun to read Ben just letting her treat him as she wish and not being savy enough to just manipulate her when she is this obvious.

The Morbius fight was rather boring. Perhaps he joins up later on. I have never cared much for him. Never actually read a good story with him. I know I have read most if not all of his appereances before 2005 ish.

The art was at least unique. It managed to feel both rushed and beautiful at the same time. It's been a while since I read anything by Pitchell but I remember it as being better then this.

An ok enough issue that I will have forgotten about tomorrow. 6/10.

[Huntsman Spider]

Well I think this is KT's first Spider-man comic. Overall it was fine enough. Not something to remember but no obvious missteps. To verbose and as some other has said boring.

I can buy Ben being eager to please and insecure because of the whole Slott&PAD thing but it doesn't make for an engaging protaganist. I want him to be more active and intelligent. Someone like Maxine might be in power but it doesn't feel fun to read Ben just letting her treat him as she wish and not being savy enough to just manipulate her when she is this obvious.

The Morbius fight was rather boring. Perhaps he joins up later on. I have never cared much for him. Never actually read a good story with him. I know I have read most if not all of his appereances before 2005 ish.

The art was at least unique. It managed to feel both rushed and beautiful at the same time. It's been a while since I read anything by Pitchell but I remember it as being better then this.

An ok enough issue that I will have forgotten about tomorrow. 6/10.

Aside from having contributed to Amazing Spider-Man: Full Circle from back in October 2019, you'd be about right on this being her first time writing a full-on Spider-Man comic.

[Malachi]

Aside from having contributed to Amazing Spider-Man: Full Circle from back in October 2019, you'd be about right on this being her first time writing a full-on Spider-Man comic.

Yes I figured she had contributed before but not as a sole writer

[SanityOrMadness]

I wish Morbius was a REAL vampire instead of some guy with an illness who needs to drink fresh plasma to alleviate symptoms, or whatever VINO (Vampire In Name Only) he’s supposed to be. That’s always bothered me about the character. Comic Code has been dead for decades. Time for Marvel to retcon him as a real vampiric being.

He was a real vampire for a while in the 90s. It was Mackie who reset him back to "living vampire" with nary a word in the post-Clone Saga run on PP:SM.

[HypnoHustler]

He was a real vampire for a while in the 90s. It was Mackie who reset him back to "living vampire" with nary a word in the post-Clone Saga run on PP:SM.

With Mackie’s shaky grip on continuity, he probably wasn’t even aware.

[Lukmendes]

-Ben is acting very inexperienced in his interactions with Morbius and Misty/Colleen. This isn’t the Ben who single-handedly took down the U-Foes just last issue, is it?

A lot of that victory was because of the tech he was using that specifically countered them, but yeah, he was looking too much like an amateur here.

- While I like the dialogue between Ben and Janine, is her role always just to be hanging out in the apartment for a couple pages each issue? I wouldn’t have believed it a couple issues ago, but now I agree with those who say she’s being set up for a fridging.

Janine herself complains about being basically imprisoned, so that seems to be intentional.

[Pav]

With Mackie’s shaky grip on continuity, he probably wasn’t even aware.

Okay, so if I remember correctly:

1) As previously stated, Morbius was turned into a supernatural vampire back in his 90s solo because of some infection or poisoning or something.

2. Under Mackie, Morbius started off as just a living vampire again. But!

3) He was somehow infected by biting/exploding with Crown, and that supposedly changed him into some kind of superweapon. This was, of course, not followed up on as far as I recall.

4) Morbius had that miniseries where he wore his hoodie. I think was he just a living vampire there -- but they did acknowledge his time his ARMOR, so that's all canon.

5) Now he's this somewhat-mutated version of himself, I guess, but everything else is gone apparently. I do think I remember one writer acknowledging all the transformations and experimentation done upon him over the years, but I don't recall what comic that was.

-Pav, who still needs to finish the Morbius omnibus...