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  1. #1
    Fantastic Member
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    Default Explain Rebirth to Me

    So, in 2011, Flashpoint happened, the DC Universe was rebooted, and I stopped reading new comics. Literally haven't read one in over ten years. It's not that I think this was a bad idea, in fact, I think it was a good one. I mean, how many times can Batman put the Joker in prison before we just call quits on this continuity? So I thought it was a good idea to end that continuity and start a new one. I'm just not interested in the new one. I prefer to spend my comic-reading time being a historian on the 70-year history of what came before.

    But then this Rebirth happened. So...Obviously, I've avoided this for some time, but it's time for me to finally ask the question. Did it put the old continuity back, or start another new continuity, or what?

    I feel like the answer's going to be more complicated than that, so...here we go.

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    It returned history while also morphing that history to conform with the new stuff that people liked/what dc wanted to keep. By that I mean more versions of characters we recognized returned but we also kept things like Wildstorm and Vertigo characters or even Jon Kent, Wallace West, and Khalid Nassour to name a few.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
    Words to live by.

  3. #3
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    So, when you say it returned things to as they were before, that means we're still in the Post-Crisis timeline now, with some variations?

    I'll give you an example. In the Post-Infinite-Crisis timeline, the founding members of the JLA Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Aquaman, Green Lantern, and J'onn J'onzz. Zero Hour stated that, at that time, 10 years had passed since the debut of most of these heroes, while later comics commented that it had, in fact, been well over ten years.

    The New 52 established a new continuity wherein there were only six founding JLA members, with Green Lantern and J'onn J'onzz being dropped for Cyborg. I believe it was stated that the heroes were, as of 2011, in Year 6 of their careers. Superman from the Post-Infinite-Crisis world, from what I'm told, arrived in this world around that time and lived there for about 10 years, saying to me that time passed in this world in real-time.

    So now that we have Rebirth, which is it? The version of the JLA with GL & J'onn J'onzz, or with Cyborg?

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slimybug View Post
    So, when you say it returned things to as they were before, that means we're still in the Post-Crisis timeline now, with some variations?

    I'll give you an example. In the Post-Infinite-Crisis timeline, the founding members of the JLA Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Aquaman, Green Lantern, and J'onn J'onzz. Zero Hour stated that, at that time, 10 years had passed since the debut of most of these heroes, while later comics commented that it had, in fact, been well over ten years.

    The New 52 established a new continuity wherein there were only six founding JLA members, with Green Lantern and J'onn J'onzz being dropped for Cyborg. I believe it was stated that the heroes were, as of 2011, in Year 6 of their careers. Superman from the Post-Infinite-Crisis world, from what I'm told, arrived in this world around that time and lived there for about 10 years, saying to me that time passed in this world in real-time.

    So now that we have Rebirth, which is it? The version of the JLA with GL & J'onn J'onzz, or with Cyborg?
    It was J'onn. Cyborg joined later on, after he finished his tenure in Titans, approximately 4 years ago in the timeline
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 10-29-2021 at 07:48 AM.

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Rebirth was more of a deboot rather than a reboot. All your favorite stories still happened in some shape or form. Note that I'm treating Rebirth and Infinite Frontier as a whole rather than two separate things since the two happened very closely together.

    If you're reading the current Flash run, it feels like everything that happened to the Flash family from 2011's Flash Rebirth to Heroes in Crisis was a bad dream and much of Wally's pre-nu52 history is brought back and intact. Characters are in-universe are aware that they were 'rebooted' and their histories were altered but they still go about their lives.

    Most of Superman's Post Crisis history still happened, the main difference being that at some point after 'Death of Superman' and his subsequent return, Lois gave birth to Jon Kent.

    Wonder Woman's origin is now a combination of her Marston origin and Perez origin. Her Nu52 origin is treated like a hallucination that the Gods gave her to test her. The story also stated that she has been around for 10 years now.

    Dick Grayson's post crisis history still happened, the main difference being that he was fired from being Robin and that he was Red X at some point as well. The 'Ric Grayson era is treated almost like it was a bad dream that the characters have moved on from.

    Does most of it make sense?

    No.

    Not in a shared universe sense but you can enjoy certain titles on it's own terms. If you like the Super Family, Wally West Flash, pre Nu52 WW, Dixon Nightwing then you'll likely be able to enjoy those titles on their own terms.

  6. #6
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    I don't think even DC can really explain Rebirth . . .

  7. #7

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    DC tried to fix the new 52 by bringing back the continuity they cut away.

    Your mileage may vary.

  8. #8
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    Hal was a founding Justice League member in the New 52 as the first issue showed him and Batman meeting for the first time, but yeah, Rebirth revealed that everyone had missing memories

  9. #9
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    You remember in the late 90's/very early 00's when DC started bringing a lot of pre-Crisis elements back into the fold, using a variety of retcons, re-imaginings and re-introductions? Rebirth is sort of like that. It's not post-Crisis. It's not New52. And it doesn't always mesh very well, but it does manage to get most of the more popular bits Of both in the same janky narrative.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    I think people should continue to answer OP's question of course but I wonder if the new, 'it-all-happened' thing makes the continuity questions sort of moot.

    Is it the Martian Manhunter founded League or the Cyborg one? Or the Black Canary one? The answer is yes. It is all of those. The basic idea of Infinite Frontier is that everything happened and it's up to creators to decide which continuities they draw upon.

    For the most part and maybe entirely, that has meant that every classic thing (pre- and post-Crisis) has been treated as having happened and they use the IF excuse to encourage readers not to think about the continuity. To just put that problem aside.

    The relative success of Infinite Frontier, which only recently began, will depend on great creators to create great stories unhindered by the Pandora's box of continuity problems unleashed by COIE. Pre-Crisis there were zero continuity problems because when continuity was different than it had been before that was chalked up to older comics having been of a different time. The way that such issues were resolved was the exact philosophy upon which IF is based: creators and editors take the best of the past and leave the rest alone. And any creator has the ability to decide which is the best and which to leave alone.

    New 52 was a hard reboot, Rebirth was a soft reboot, IF invalidated the concept of reboots altogether.

  11. #11
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    I think people should continue to answer OP's question of course but I wonder if the new, 'it-all-happened' thing makes the continuity questions sort of moot.

    Is it the Martian Manhunter founded League or the Cyborg one? Or the Black Canary one? The answer is yes. It is all of those. The basic idea of Infinite Frontier is that everything happened and it's up to creators to decide which continuities they draw upon.

    For the most part and maybe entirely, that has meant that every classic thing (pre- and post-Crisis) has been treated as having happened and they use the IF excuse to encourage readers not to think about the continuity. To just put that problem aside.

    The relative success of Infinite Frontier, which only recently began, will depend on great creators to create great stories unhindered by the Pandora's box of continuity problems unleashed by COIE. Pre-Crisis there were zero continuity problems because when continuity was different than it had been before that was chalked up to older comics having been of a different time. The way that such issues were resolved was the exact philosophy upon which IF is based: creators and editors take the best of the past and leave the rest alone. And any creator has the ability to decide which is the best and which to leave alone.

    New 52 was a hard reboot, Rebirth was a soft reboot, IF invalidated the concept of reboots altogether.
    Yes, what BatmanJones said.

    If you are wondering if something is in continuity again, the answer is now "Yes, if you want it to be" The various contradictions and messiness of the last few years was the result of time being completely effed due to the machinations of an assortment of cosmic beings pulling time shenanigans over and over until history itself broke. It is only now rebuilding itself, so pretty much anything creators want to include is now fair game.

    Which, in practice, boils down to the stories everyone liked to begin with, minus the ones everyone disliked.

  12. #12
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    ...Yikes.

    I guess that answers the next question "Explain Infinite Frontier" to me.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slimybug View Post
    ...Yikes.

    I guess that answers the next question "Explain Infinite Frontier" to me.
    All the cosmic beings that were manipulating history succeeded in reshaping time and space into their own reality, which was chronicled in the ridiculously dumb stoner event known as "Death Metal". It ended with Wonder Woman unravelling all the knots that the various Crisis events had inflicted upon DC continuity.

    This resulted in a new DC Omniverse that is currently still taking shape, but, as I mentioned, essentially just means that all the stories people liked are back in play and all the ones people hated are being ignored. The residents of the DCU now remember that their lives have been repeatedly altered and reshaped and that was the premise of the Infinite Frontier event that just concluded. It wasn't particularly well-received, nor did it sell very well. Reportedly, it was meant to be Act 1 of a larger story that is meant to culminate in another big continuity-focused event in 2023 that will hopefully be a better story.

  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slimybug View Post
    ...Yikes.

    I guess that answers the next question "Explain Infinite Frontier" to me.
    After the event Death Metal, The Source Wall that borders the DC Multiverse no longer exist, expanding the universe into an Omniverse. Infinite number of alternate Earths, infinite possibilities for stories, and everything matters.

    All of DC mainline publication from Golden Age to now is in a big long timeline (including all the alternate timelines), but after each Crisis events, the Multiverse and its inhabitants reincarnated to a new version, creating new present state and new history.

    Usually the inhabitants don't realize they've been rebooted, but this time, after Death Metal, their memory of past versions are unlocked, so that they remember what their past lives like before each reboot (the memories show up in flashes).

    Storytelling wise, it does allow authors to pull from previous incarnations but physically, what they experience after each reboot, is still only one version of things. (at least for now, until they start contradicting things again, but I imagine they're gonna justify that as them remembering their past versions)

    For example, Deathstroke remembers his daughter Rose taking out her eye in Post Crisis so she can be more like her father, but the current Rose has both eyes, so physically they're the Rebirth Deathstroke and Rose, not Post Crisis. That event where Rose took out her eye didn't happen in their current version, but he remembers.

    Some events I'm sure they're gonna keep deliberately vague so they don't have to make a clear timeline, because the purpose is so the writers don't get bogged down by continuity.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 10-29-2021 at 07:50 AM.

  15. #15
    Fantastic Member blunt_eastwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slimybug View Post
    ...Yikes.

    I guess that answers the next question "Explain Infinite Frontier" to me.
    It's basically DC's way of saying that there is no longer a strict continuity or timeline. Previous stories either happened or didn't depending on who's writing the current story.

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