Jesse Custer vs Jessica Atreides

[Sophicles]

1. Preacher TV version Jesse with the Word takes on Dune movie version Jessica with the Voice.

2. Hand-to-hand only; both are silenced.

Who wins in each case - Jesse or Jessica?

[Nik Hasta]

Jesse takes both of these pretty free.

In scenario 1, there's the slight question of who speaks first, so technically toss a coin.

At it's peak though, the Word is wildly more potent than the Voice, can actually do impossible things and much more persistent in its effects. Commands Jesse gave in the show were more complex and long-lasting than anything Jessica showed in her film so I would give it to him in a pure power-vs-power match up.

Also, Jesse could just say "Go to hell," and dimension dump Jessica because the Word in the tv show works like that. Or, for brevity's sake "Die," and she will die.

In scenario 2, Jessica has one short fight in the film where she demonstrates some skill whereas Jesse has tons of fight scenes throughout the series and is routinely portrayed as an absolute combat monster. Without the Voice, he kills her in short order.

I mean, just look at him go:

[Muadib]

Pity. By presentation Jessica should be waaay above Jesse in combat. But that involves scaling from the movies, Atreides Legions < Sardaukar < Fremen < Bene Gesserit trained combatant. But she doesnt have the feats, other than beating Stilgar who should also be head and shoulders above Jesse, but again, no feats.

[Nik Hasta]

Pity. By presentation Jessica should be waaay above Jesse in combat. But that involves scaling from the movies, Atreides Legions < Sardaukar < Fremen < Bene Gesserit trained combatant. But she doesnt have the feats, other than beating Stilgar who should also be head and shoulders above Jesse, but again, no feats.

I'm not quite sure I follow your logic here. I've only seen the film once but I'd be hard pressed to name anyone in the Dune films, as presented onscreen [I have not read the books], who is remotely in Jesse's league in terms of combat ability, density of feats or even raw strength. Like, Duncan fought like... seven enemy soldiers and took down a lot of them but died in the act of doing so.

Conversely, Jesse routinely fights groups of enemies by himself and mostly wins.

[Morning]

Pity. By presentation Jessica should be waaay above Jesse in combat. But that involves scaling from the movies, Atreides Legions < Sardaukar < Fremen < Bene Gesserit trained combatant. But she doesnt have the feats, other than beating Stilgar who should also be head and shoulders above Jesse, but again, no feats.

I dont think it's that straightforward. Most of the combat in the film had a specific context—the Sardaukar got the drop on the Atreides and outnumbered them, the Fremen had home field advantage against the Sardaukar, etc.

[Muadib]

I'm not quite sure I follow your logic here. I've only seen the film once but I'd be hard pressed to name anyone in the Dune films, as presented onscreen [I have not read the books], who is remotely in Jesse's league in terms of combat ability, density of feats or even raw strength. Like, Duncan fought like... seven enemy soldiers and took down a lot of them but died in the act of doing so.

Conversely, Jesse routinely fights groups of enemies by himself and mostly wins.

Duncan killed 19 Sardaukar. You need to rewatch that scene. By presentation Sardaukar are the best military in the known universe, in a setting where melee combat is king. Sardaukar are worth between 5 and 10 of any other military soldier in setting, as unnamed troops. The only fighters as good or better then them are in order, Atreides troops, who fight them as equals, Fremen, who beat Sardaukar at a 5 to 1 ration (that is one Fremen casualty for every 5 Sardaukar), Swordmasters of the Ginaz school, of whom Duncan was one, and then the supreme combatants are Bene Gesserit trained, like Jessica and Paul.

Sardaukar are a big deal in setting, the force whose martial skill underpins the Emperor's rule. They're not cannon fodder. Duncan killing 19 before he died made him a almost mythical figure, a hero out of legend.

You should read the first four books, they are seminal scifi.

[Captain Morgan]

I dont think it's that straightforward. Most of the combat in the film had a specific context—the Sardaukar got the drop on the Atreides and outnumbered them, the Fremen had home field advantage against the Sardaukar, etc.

Desert power, etc

[Nik Hasta]

Duncan killed 19 Sardaukar. You need to rewatch that scene. By presentation Sardaukar are the best military in the known universe, in a setting where melee combat is king. Sardaukar are worth between 5 and 10 of any other military soldier in setting, as unnamed troops. The only fighters as good or better then them are in order, Atreides troops, who fight them as equals, Fremen, who beat Sardaukar at a 5 to 1 ration (that is one Fremen casualty for every 5 Sardaukar), Swordmasters of the Ginaz school, of whom Duncan was one, and then the supreme combatants are Bene Gesserit trained, like Jessica and Paul.

Sardaukar are a big deal in setting, the force whose martial skill underpins the Emperor's rule. They're not cannon fodder. Duncan killing 19 before he died made him a almost mythical figure, a hero out of legend.

See, a lot of this stuff sounds like flavour text stuff from the book which is not actually in the text of the film. All we saw of the Sardukar was them saying "We're really tough," at the ritual scene and then they blindsided the Atreides from behind, pincered them with the Harkonnen troops and killed them. There didn't seem to be much of a material difference in terms of how they were presented in the film.

Duncan then plowed through a bunch of them, apparently 19 of them (though that seems higher than the number that I recall from the film itself). I'm not seeing anything that suggests that they are five guys strong as they are presented in the film.

Conversely; Jesse has demonstrable low level metahuman strength, a diverse range of feats of beating the **** out of groups of people by himself, regularly fights beings that are beyond human and holds his own or even wins. He has feats that no one in the film of Dune can remotely touch with the possible exception of Duncan.

You should read the first four books, they are seminal scifi.

No, thank you.

[Nik Hasta]

Desert power, etc

I audibly snorted when that line came back in the latter part of the film. Audibly snorted.

[Shellhead]

You should read the first four books, they are seminal scifi.

Nobody should read God-Emperor of Dune (book four) unless they super-loved Children of Dune (book three). The focus of the fourth book is the brooding of a man who has become a worm. Even Denis Villeneuve has no interest in making a movie based on God-Emperor of Dune. He is already working on the second movie, and hopes to do one more Dune movie based on book two, Dune Messiah.

[Nik Hasta]

The focus of the fourth book is the brooding of a man who has become a worm.

Again, audibly chuckled at this line.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Again, audibly chuckled at this line.

Probably the most amusing thing I've read in the past few days.

[Muadib]

See, a lot of this stuff sounds like flavour text stuff from the book which is not actually in the text of the film. All we saw of the Sardukar was them saying "We're really tough," at the ritual scene and then they blindsided the Atreides from behind, pincered them with the Harkonnen troops and killed them. There didn't seem to be much of a material difference in terms of how they were presented in the film.

Duncan then plowed through a bunch of them, apparently 19 of them (though that seems higher than the number that I recall from the film itself). I'm not seeing anything that suggests that they are five guys strong as they are presented in the film.

Conversely; Jesse has demonstrable low level metahuman strength, a diverse range of feats of beating the **** out of groups of people by himself, regularly fights beings that are beyond human and holds his own or even wins. He has feats that no one in the film of Dune can remotely touch with the possible exception of Duncan.



No, thank you.

Please note i said by presentation and that i conceded she lacked the feats. I'm aware of how the feat system works here. It's a pity in my mind they were unable to adequately present the novels treatment of the fighting skill hierarchy of the setting. But the film was already 2.5 hours long. Things got cut or telescoped to fit the time.

May i ask why your disinterested in reading the Dune books?

[Postmania]

Desert Power is a great line tbh

[Nik Hasta]

Please note i said by presentation and that i conceded she lacked the feats. I'm aware of how the feat system works here. It's a pity in my mind they were unable to adequately present the novels treatment of the fighting skill hierarchy of the setting. But the film was already 2.5 hours long. Things got cut or telescoped to fit the time.

Oh okay.

"I am allegedly aware of how the feat system works but I also made a whole post about how characters in the film are literally men-with-the-power-of-five-men based on flavour text from the book which is not in the film at all,"

So, in case I'm missing something here, who in the 2021 Dune film is capable of fighting Jesse?

May i ask why your disinterested in reading the Dune books?

Tried reading the first one in my twenties and found it boring and uninteresting.

I have felt no compulsion to revisit them based on that initial experience.

this is not to say that Dune is good or bad, I just do not care about it.