Vaccine question

[Jim Kelly]

One thing I don't get is how can anti-vaxxers be fine with the known long term effects of Covid and throw a fit about the vaccine's unknown ones. Also the super deadly short term effect of death. The more I think about it, this seems to be more about trying to "own the libs". It's a hill that these people are LITERALLY willing to die on.

In the United States, for some groups, it might be about "owning the Libs," but if you look at the anti-vax movement around the world, there are people on the extreme left, the extreme right and in the middle. You can't pigeon-hole them as one group. Maybe the only thing they have in common is consuming social media lies. So blame Mark Zuckerberg.

The hard thing for government in Europe right now is what do do about it. Bringing in lockdown restrictions just seems to prove to these people that they were right all along--it's a massive conspiracy by big brother to take away their freedoms and civil rights. So it drives all these people to join the same aggregate--you've got unvaccinated neo-Nazis banding together with unvaccinated hot yoga instructors and they're all sharing the same air, increasing the chances of infection. Which will ultimately overwhelm the hospitals and make a worse situation intolerable.

[Catlady in training]

In the United States, for some groups, it might be about "owning the Libs," but if you look at the anti-vax movement around the world, there are people on the extreme left, the extreme right and in the middle. You can't pigeon-hole them as one group. Maybe the only thing they have in common is consuming social media lies. So blame Mark Zuckerberg.

The hard thing for government in Europe right now is what do do about it. Bringing in lockdown restrictions just seems to prove to these people that they were right all along--it's a massive conspiracy by big brother to take away their freedoms and civil rights. So it drives all these people to join the same aggregate--you've got unvaccinated neo-Nazis banding together with unvaccinated hot yoga instructors and they're all sharing the same air, increasing the chances of infection. Which will ultimately overwhelm the hospitals and make a worse situation intolerable.

I agree about this not being right vs. left thing. I live in Slovakia (in central Europe) and over here, the political parties that fight against restrictions and now against vaccinations are a far right (neo-nazis in all but name) party and two big opposition parties which are left-wing (one of them very populist). The current government consists of right-wing (or center right as you would probably call them) parties and is in general pro vaccination, though they are not so effective in promoting them. From my perspective, it's not so much whether a political subject is left or right-wing when it comes to these questions, but how populist they are. And of course a theory is that the opposition is fighting so much against restrictions and vaccines in order to make the current government look as bad as possible and would probably choose a different approach if they were in power.

Meanwhile, Austrian government has decided to go with a vaccine mandate starting in February next year, as the first country in EU. I am really interested how this goes and how soon other countries will follow, since the numbers are getting increasingly bad in this area.

[JB]

I agree about this not being right vs. left thing. I live in Slovakia (in central Europe) and over here, the political parties that fight against restrictions and now against vaccinations are a far right (neo-nazis in all but name) party and two big opposition parties which are left-wing (one of them very populist). The current government consists of right-wing (or center right as you would probably call them) parties and is in general pro vaccination, though they are not so effective in promoting them. From my perspective, it's not so much whether a political subject is left or right-wing when it comes to these questions, but how populist they are. And of course a theory is that the opposition is fighting so much against restrictions and vaccines in order to make the current government look as bad as possible and would probably choose a different approach if they were in power.

Meanwhile, Austrian government has decided to go with a vaccine mandate starting in February next year, as the first country in EU. I am really interested how this goes and how soon other countries will follow, since the numbers are getting increasingly bad in this area.

I just read about your country's new lockdowns starting tomorrow and I hope they help to stop the rising numbers. All the best to you!

[Jim Kelly]

I've been hearing about the Austrian lockdown for awhile now, but I thought it would happen sooner. Doing it in February seems like locking the barn door after the horse has bolted. These months--with Advent starting this Sunday, then Nicholastag, then Weihnachten--and all the Christmas markets and church events (one of the most Catholic countries in the world)--and the height of ski season--are going to be super-spreaders.

Given how much Austria depends on tourists at this time of year--if they don't have the pandemic under control, nobody is going to come. Maybe they're hoping businesses will see sense and do what's needed for the economy, before they impose the lockdown.

[CaptainEurope]

I've been hearing about the Austrian lockdown for awhile now, but I thought it would happen sooner. Doing it in February seems like locking the barn door after the horse has bolted. These months--with Advent starting this Sunday, then Nicholastag, then Weihnachten--and all the Christmas markets and church events (one of the most Catholic countries in the world)--and the height of ski season--are going to be super-spreaders.

Given how much Austria depends on tourists at this time of year--if they don't have the pandemic under control, nobody is going to come. Maybe they're hoping businesses will see sense and do what's needed for the economy, before they impose the lockdown.

The lockdown is now.

The mandatory vaccinations will be in February. I guess they are hoping that some of the unvaccinated will do it before then to avoid the crowds.

[Jim Kelly]

The lockdown is now.

The mandatory vaccinations will be in February. I guess they are hoping that some of the unvaccinated will do it before then to avoid the crowds.

Oops! My bad. Thanks for clearing it all up for me. I had got myself all confused about the when and the what up in my head.

[Catlady in training]

I just read about your country's new lockdowns starting tomorrow and I hope they help to stop the rising numbers. All the best to you!

Thanks.

The lockdown is now.

The mandatory vaccinations will be in February. I guess they are hoping that some of the unvaccinated will do it before then to avoid the crowds.

And it probably gives those that hesitated until now an option to still get vaccinated before the mandate, meaning that they can still pretend to do it of their own free will, not because they are told they have to. The psychological factor may help to convince some, I hope.

[JB]

On the topic of lockdowns and such…

European and Asian nations suspend flights to southern Africa as new Covid variant raises concerns
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/11/25/...es-alarms.html

Israel restricts travel to southern Africa over new COVID-19 variant
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...nt-2021-11-25/

Dow futures drop more than 800 points on fears of new Covid variant found in South Africa
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/11/26/...rket-news.html

To put it into context, the Beta variant has three mutations and the Delta has two. This new variant is said to have 10 mutations.

UPDATE: Belgium confirms the first case of the "new variant" in the European Union.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

On the topic of lockdowns and such…

European and Asian nations suspend flights to southern Africa as new Covid variant raises concerns
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/11/25/...es-alarms.html

Israel restricts travel to southern Africa over new COVID-19 variant
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...nt-2021-11-25/

Dow futures drop more than 800 points on fears of new Covid variant found in South Africa
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/11/26/...rket-news.html

To put it into context, the Beta variant has three mutations and the Delta has two. This new variant is said to have 10 mutations.

UPDATE: Belgium confirms the first case of the "new variant" in the European Union.

Been reading about the new variant this morning. At this point, it’s no longer a question of IF it migrates to the States, but WHEN.

[JB]

Been reading about the new variant this morning. At this point, it’s no longer a question of IF it migrates to the States, but WHEN.

I fear you're right. And I can't help but wonder if it's already here and just hasn't been discovered yet.

This is a interesting read and provides some insight from South African doctors.

South Africa accuses UK and others of ‘knee-jerk’ reaction to new variant
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nt-vaccination

However, Dr Angelique Coetzee, chair of the South African Medical Association and a practising GP based in Pretoria, said it was “premature” to make predictions of a health crisis.

“It’s all speculation at this stage. It may be it’s highly transmissible, but so far the cases we are seeing are extremely mild,” she said. “Maybe two weeks from now I will have a different opinion, but this is what we are seeing. So are we seriously worried? No. We are concerned and we watch what’s happening. But for now we’re saying, ‘OK: there’s a whole hype out there. [We’re] not sure why.’

[JB]

White House announces restrictions on travel from South Africa, 7 other countries
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/wh...ies-2021-11-26

All of this has led to:

Dow suffers worst day in 2021, falls 900 pts at close
https://breakingthenews.net/Article/...close/56826337

[WestPhillyPunisher]

I fear you're right. And I can't help but wonder if it's already here and just hasn't been discovered yet.

This is a interesting read and provides some insight from South African doctors.

South Africa accuses UK and others of ‘knee-jerk’ reaction to new variant
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nt-vaccination

With millions having died from the virus and cases ramping up yet again in Europe and the U.S., right on time for the holiday season, I’m of the opinion you can’t be knee-jerk enough. At the end of the day, it’s always better to err on the side of caution.

By the by, I made an appointment this morning for my Pfizer booster shot on December 6th.

[JB]

With millions having died from the virus and cases ramping up yet again in Europe and the U.S., right on time for the holiday season, I’m of the opinion you can’t be knee-jerk enough. At the end of the day, it’s always better to err on the side of caution.

By the by, I made an appointment this morning for my Pfizer booster shot on December 6th.

I agree, especially with this thing having so many mutations it seems. I hope symptoms remain mild but better to be extra cautious.