Vaccine question

[Kirby101]

I'm just as mystified as Charles is. Florida has the lowest case rate in the country with zero mandates. Those Regeneron clinics that opened up seem to be making a big impact.

https://twitter.com/CharlesMBlow/sta...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

I assume you are being sarcastic. There are many, many reports out there that Dersantis, and Florida are under reporting their cases. The sharp drop from Aug. with 25,000 cases a day to 1,500 now is more than suspicious.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...-as-cases-were

[JB]

I assume you are being sarcastic. There are many, many reports out there that Dersantis, and Florida are under reporting their cases. The sharp drop from Aug. with 25,000 cases a day to 1,500 now is more than suspicious.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...-as-cases-were

I didn't pose the original question, NY Times reporter Charles M. Blow did.
State numbers are confirmed by the federal government, by the CDC. So you're saying the CDC is underreporting the numbers in FL? Just looking for clarification.

[shooshoomanjoe]

I assume you are being sarcastic. There are many, many reports out there that Dersantis, and Florida are under reporting their cases. The sharp drop from Aug. with 25,000 cases a day to 1,500 now is more than suspicious.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...-as-cases-were

Yep. Rebekah Jones was fired for refusing to hide FL's COVID data.

[Kirby101]

I didn't pose the original question, NY Times reporter Charles M. Blow did.
State numbers are confirmed by the federal government, by the CDC. So you're saying the CDC is underreporting the numbers in FL? Just looking for clarification.

Actually they are not confirmed. The CDC is accepting State numbers. And read the replies to Blow's twitter post. But if you are just a GOP apologist for Trumpean policies, we have nothing to talk about.

[CaptCleghorn]

The complaints I've seen come from people quoting Biden as saying "If you get vaccinated you won't get covid." Unfortunately there are a lot of people who believe they have complete immunity once vaccinated. I know that's not the case but the CDC felt compelled to change their definition just two months ago due to the confusion.

Yeah, that quote by Biden was one that was fact-checked and found incorrect. It was also fact checked along with many other Biden quotes where he gets the science and results correct. Your co-anti-vaxxers, err, I mean your sources, are obviously people who are far enough from confused to be able to hunt for a single quote that supports their inane theories.

[Catlady in training]

EDIT: This literally just hit the news wires:

Pfizer says its Covid pill with HIV drug cuts the risk of hospitalization or death by 89%

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/05/pfiz...89percent.html

I wonder if those people that refuse to wear masks and get vaccinated will be willing to take it once they are sick, or if they will refuse this as well.

[JB]

Actually they are not confirmed. The CDC is accepting State numbers. And read the replies to Blow's twitter post. But if you are just a GOP apologist for Trumpean policies, we have nothing to talk about.

So you think the CDC is allowing incorrect numbers on their website? How is that supposed to instill confidence? That's the whole point of the conversation, confidence for people to get the vaccine.

Yeah, that quote by Biden was one that was fact-checked and found incorrect. It was also fact checked along with many other Biden quotes where he gets the science and results correct. Your co-anti-vaxxers, err, I mean your sources, are obviously people who are far enough from confused to be able to hunt for a single quote that supports their inane theories.

You're missing the point. The conversation was about the mixed messages and confusion people are feeling. Does everyone know it was fact-checked? Apparently not if the CDC had to change their definition. There are vaccinated people mistakenly believing they are 100% immune. That's the whole point and it lends itself to continued spread.

I wonder if those people that refuse to wear masks and get vaccinated will be willing to take it once they are sick, or if they will refuse this as well.

I certainly would hope they would.

[CaptCleghorn]

You're missing the point. The conversation was about the mixed messages and confusion people are feeling. Does everyone know it was fact-checked? Apparently not if the CDC had to change their definition. There are vaccinated people mistakenly believing they are 100% immune. That's the whole point and it lends itself to continued spread.

The "confused" anti-vaxxers have found ONE of many Biden quotes to base their attacks on. Had they heard anything else about COVID out of his mouth they would have heard something different and considerably more accurate. Finding the one flawed statement is not confusion, it's politicizing the issue and formulating an argument.

No vaccine is 100% effective. That's actual scientific fact. Some vaccines are even less effective than COVID and have been that way for years. Looking at the before and after definitions, the difference in meaning is subtle enough to escape many not specifically looking for a point to harp on. This is what happens when people go off on faulty tangents getting away from the real point. The real point is "Vaccine good, but not perfect".

As for vaccinated people believing they are 100% immune, that only occurs if they haven't heard anything but Biden's single gaffe and believing that completely. The warnings about taking precautions even if fully vaccinated have been fairly common and missing all of those is very difficult.

The point of your anti-vax stance is looking at people who have used blinders to examine one or possibly two false exaggerated statements and supposedly being unaware of any of the great amount of accurate COVID information out there.

Here's a news story all about the definition change.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/cor...254111268.html

[JB]

The "confused" anti-vaxxers have found ONE of many Biden quotes to base their attacks on. Had they heard anything else about COVID out of his mouth they would have heard something different and considerably more accurate. Finding the one flawed statement is not confusion, it's politicizing the issue and formulating an argument.

No vaccine is 100% effective. That's actual scientific fact. Some vaccines are even less effective than COVID and have been that way for years. Looking at the before and after definitions, the difference in meaning is subtle enough to escape many not specifically looking for a point to harp on. This is what happens when people go off on faulty tangents getting away from the real point. The real point is "Vaccine good, but not perfect".

As for vaccinated people believing they are 100% immune, that only occurs if they haven't heard anything but Biden's single gaffe and believing that completely. The warnings about taking precautions even if fully vaccinated have been fairly common and missing all of those is very difficult.

The point of your anti-vax stance is looking at people who have used blinders to examine one or possibly two false exaggerated statements and supposedly being unaware of any of the great amount of accurate COVID information out there.

Here's a news story all about the definition change.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/cor...254111268.html

Yes, that very article is how I learned about the definition change. I brought up the change because there was a comment by numberthirty that I agreed with, that the message of everyone being able to "go back to normal" at the beginning of the rollout shouldn't have been the message. We see that that's not the case and it's created major skepticism.

You can disagree with it all you like but the fact remains that the message confused many people and it's a part of the hesitancy to get vaccinated that was being discussed. Not everyone who is hesitant is an "anti-vaxxer". That's lazy thinking and just wanting to slap labels on people.

[CaptCleghorn]

Yes, that very article is how I learned about the definition change. I brought up the change because there was a comment by numberthirty that I agreed with, that the message of everyone being able to "go back to normal" at the beginning of the rollout shouldn't have been the message. We see that that's not the case and it's created major skepticism.

You can disagree with it all you like but the fact remains that the message confused many people and it's a part of the hesitancy to get vaccinated that was being discussed. Not everyone who is hesitant is an "anti-vaxxer". That's lazy thinking and just wanting to slap labels on people.

Let's deal in actual facts. This is a pandemic the likes of which have not been seen in a century. The messages have been changing as a better, clearer picture of the situation has arisen. The goal has ALWAYS been getting back to normal. The message was that the vaccines were the best first step towards that goal. Of course if all you go by is one misstatement by Joe Biden, you wouldn't have seen any of that. The vaccines have been around for months and in that time, the situation has changed such as the delta variant. If you think the message was going to be clear on day one and be correct no matter what you are way beyond naive.

Not wanting to get vaccinated is pretty much the definition of anti-vaxxer. As for numberthirty's comment, they obviously didn't see any of the news or warnings about the vaccine and how long it would take to get back to normal. The vaccine was not stated to be a simple complete solution and outside of that ONE statement by Biden, there was nothing said by anyone in medicine or authority that said anything like that. Looking at that statement, if you believe your personal vaccination would bring things back to normal, you're wrong. They (numberthirty) spouted nonsense and you're going to the mat to defend it.

People are confused, yes. The picture of what is happening is changing, yes. As time goes on and on, we get a clearer and more accurate picture of what the COVID situation is. But you are going on and on about one statement when everything else that has come out of his mouth has been different. The actual science of vaccines bringing us back to normal has a lot to do with the percentage of population immunized.

If "the message of everyone being able to "go back to normal" at the beginning of the rollout shouldn't have been the message", what should the message have been? Keep in mind that the numbers getting back to normal are based on haven't been reached in most places. If the message is "get vaccinated and go back to normal" and a good third or more of the population doesn't get vaccinated, their skepticism is disingenuous.

As for the changing landscape, it's a fairly accepted fact (by people who believe what the science and data tell us) that COVID vaccines will reduce, but not eliminate the chances of getting infected with COVID. It's also an accepted fact that vaccines lessen the severity and chances of death if one does become infected. You can go by the 999 sources that tell us this, or you can go with the one statement Biden made and that statement alone and remain "skeptical".

[JB]

But you are going on and on about one statement when everything else that has come out of his mouth has been different.

Actually I wasn't, I used it as an example of the confusing messaging that is, understandably, constantly changing. You've been going on and on about the one statement so I'll do us both, and the board, a favor and drop it.

[inisideguy]

Actually I wasn't, I used it as an example of the confusing messaging that is, understandably, constantly changing. You've been going on and on about the one statement so I'll do us both, and the board, a favor and drop it.

Florida has the 7th or 8th highest death rate for covid in the country. And thats with the stats they give. They are not doing anything spectacular. My guess is they are even higher than that, with how they report. No one should be holding Florida up for anything regarding this. There are facts and there are perceptions. In the world perceptions I guess is what matters because anyone who is claiming Florida is doing something wonderful or even good regarding covid is buying into what they are selling.

[Kirby101]

People I don't debate with. Climate Change deniers, creationist and anti-vaxers.

[CaptainEurope]

I wonder if those people that refuse to wear masks and get vaccinated will be willing to take it once they are sick, or if they will refuse this as well.

Pfizer made a huge PR mistake by not having this information rolled out by a basement youtuber and right wing radio sports guys first.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

I wonder if those people that refuse to wear masks and get vaccinated will be willing to take it once they are sick, or if they will refuse this as well.

Chances are the COVIDiots will pass on that as well, continue to scream bloody murder for horse dewormer and other bullshit homeopathic "cures" that recently put Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers on everyone's **** list.