Vaccine question

[JB]

Florida has the 7th or 8th highest death rate for covid in the country. And thats with the stats they give. They are not doing anything spectacular. My guess is they are even higher than that, with how they report. No one should be holding Florida up for anything regarding this. There are facts and there are perceptions. In the world perceptions I guess is what matters because anyone who is claiming Florida is doing something wonderful or even good regarding covid is buying into what they are selling.

If the average Joe wants information, they’re going to go to the CDC website which is the authority. You’re saying on a public forum that the CDC has inaccurate numbers? How many other states are under or over reporting then?

I ask these questions for a reason and I’d appreciate genuine feedback rather than being labeled for asking questions.

I’m a small business owner and now that OSHA has just announced a 30-day comment period to consider adding small businesses to the federal mandate, I’ve started talking to my employees. Some claim they have medical exemptions, but I cannot ask for details due to HIPPA. One woman volunteered that she’s on autoimmune meds and pointed me to the list of exclusions from the government’s clinical trial site:

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/histo...w#StudyPageTop

If you scroll down to Eligibility there’s a list of conditions that were excluded from the trial. I still have to contact Pfizer to confirm if this means there is no data for people with these conditions.

So if someone is skeptical, am I supposed to label them an “anti-vaxxer” and fire them? If their medical exemption is legit, they can sue me. If it’s illegitimate and OSHA investigates, I’m looking at a $13,653 fine. Two or three of those and I’m out of business. If someone feels forced to get the vaccine to keep their job and something happens to them, they can sue me. So do I just fire all the skeptics, some of which helped me survive during the lockdowns, and find and train vaccinated people only?

It’s easy to label and write-off a skeptic for some people, but in the real world it’s not so simple. Any thoughtful feedback would be appreciated because I wasn’t concerned about any of this until OSHA made the announcement this week.

[Kirby101]

The medical exemptions should come with a document from a Doctor. The medical condition does not have to be revealed, just that the Doctor does not think the patient should get the vaccine.

There is a form the government uses. So this should not be an issue.

https://www.saferfederalworkforce.go...0-%20MH508.pdf

[JB]

The medical exemptions should come with a document from a Doctor. The medical condition does not have to be revealed, just that the Doctor does not think the patient should get the vaccine.

There is a form the government uses. So this should not be an issue.

https://www.saferfederalworkforce.go...0-%20MH508.pdf

Thank you for the reply and link, I appreciate it.

[Kirby101]

Thank you for the reply and link, I appreciate it.

No problem. Hope it works out for you and your employees.

[CaptCleghorn]

I ask these questions for a reason and I’d appreciate genuine feedback rather than being labeled for asking questions.

I’m a small business owner and now that OSHA has just announced a 30-day comment period to consider adding small businesses to the federal mandate, I’ve started talking to my employees. Some claim they have medical exemptions, but I cannot ask for details due to HIPPA. One woman volunteered that she’s on autoimmune meds and pointed me to the list of exclusions from the government’s clinical trial site:

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/histo...w#StudyPageTop

If you scroll down to Eligibility there’s a list of conditions that were excluded from the trial. I still have to contact Pfizer to confirm if this means there is no data for people with these conditions.

I have no idea what the existence of this data would mean for you. Are you going to decide if your employee has an worthy medical exemption?

So if someone is skeptical, am I supposed to label them an “anti-vaxxer” and fire them? If their medical exemption is legit, they can sue me. If it’s illegitimate and OSHA investigates, I’m looking at a $13,653 fine. Two or three of those and I’m out of business. If someone feels forced to get the vaccine to keep their job and something happens to them, they can sue me. So do I just fire all the skeptics, some of which helped me survive during the lockdowns, and find and train vaccinated people only?

It’s easy to label and write-off a skeptic for some people, but in the real world it’s not so simple. Any thoughtful feedback would be appreciated because I wasn’t concerned about any of this until OSHA made the announcement this week.

There are/will be rules regarding the continued employment of employees not getting vaccinated. What you should do depends on what the actual rules state. Do you really think a comic book newsgroup has legal advice on laws that have not yet been implemented or even fully defined? You're concerned about future test data, but the actual mandate content is something you seem far less concerned with. As for firing and your responsibilities there, the law is not yet defined, and your employees contracts might have a lot to do with your culpability in terminations. Is it employment at will?

I call you an anti-vaxxer because you've done little research into anything but trivial points and extensive "what ifs" meant to complicate matters. As for being a skeptic, being able to look at what is causing the skepticism can help provide detail into what the actual fears are.

[BroHomo]

I have no idea what the existence of this data would mean for you. Are you going to decide if your employee has an worthy medical exemption?



There are/will be rules regarding the continued employment of employees not getting vaccinated. What you should do depends on what the actual rules state. Do you really think a comic book newsgroup has legal advice on laws that have not yet been implemented or even fully defined? You're concerned about future test data, but the actual mandate content is something you seem far less concerned with. As for firing and your responsibilities there, the law is not yet defined, and your employees contracts might have a lot to do with your culpability in terminations. Is it employment at will?

I call you an anti-vaxxer because you've done little research into anything but trivial points and extensive "what ifs" meant to complicate matters. As for being a skeptic, being able to look at what is causing the skepticism can help provide detail into what the actual fears are.

lol looks like they did


Speaking of New covid cases and southern states...I know for a fact they're majorly underreporting cases in the Georgia school system....at least the metro atlanta part. I've had 2 or 3 teacher friends quit.....2 different ones are talking to the AJC about the reporting...etc So I wouldnt be surprised if the states are fudging up the numbers.

[KCJ506]

One thing I don't get is how can anti-vaxxers be fine with the known long term effects of Covid and throw a fit about the vaccine's unknown ones. Also the super deadly short term effect of death. The more I think about it, this seems to be more about trying to "own the libs". It's a hill that these people are LITERALLY willing to die on.

[Tami]

One thing I don't get is how can anti-vaxxers be fine with the known long term effects of Covid and throw a fit about the vaccine's unknown ones. Also the super deadly short term effect of death. The more I think about it, this seems to be more about trying to "own the libs". It's a hill that these people are LITERALLY willing to die on.

For some it might be about 'Owning the Libs', for others, from what I've seen, it's one of the following:

1. The Vaccine is scary. They hear things from a wide array of sources that keep telling them how dangerous it is, starting with vaccines cause autism, and has evolved into vaccines cause infertility, change your DNA, cause mutations, and so on.

2. Vaccines are being forced on us and we have no say in it. Some people are so mixed up about what personal freedom means, that they risk their lives and the lives of others just to thumb their nose at 'Big Brother' government.

3. Some people don't/can't/won't trust anyone they don't know, including doctors, scientists, and of course the Government. Some of this mistrust is understandable, some is misplaced.

4. Then there are the Faith Healers/Holistic Healers/DIY Healers who are convinced that every illness can be treated either with prayer, OTC drugs, large dose of Vitamins and other supplements, or whatever is being pushed by their favorite Preacher, or TV or Radio personality.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

One thing I don't get is how can anti-vaxxers be fine with the known long term effects of Covid and throw a fit about the vaccine's unknown ones. Also the super deadly short term effect of death. The more I think about it, this seems to be more about trying to "own the libs". It's a hill that these people are LITERALLY willing to die on.

Yeah, these knuckleheads are LITERALLY willing to "own the libs" from the grave. They're not worth worrying about.

[Tami]

It is not unusual for some people to have a strong immune response to a vaccination, any vaccination. There is no danger in that. The danger is in NOT getting the Vaccine and ending up with the Real Actual COVID Virus, and ending up in an ICU and/or with Long Term COVID.

Millions, perhaps billions of people have had the vaccine without any problems.

When you say that you don't know what it is or what is in it, ask your doctor or do some research. I assume that you have had vaccinations before. This is a vaccine just like the ones you get as a child before going to school.

Also, I assume that you take over the counter medicines. Have you ever wondered how those meds are made or what is in them?

Bottom line, ask questions, ask your family Doctor. Just don't ask questions over Social Media.

[Scott Taylor]

Well now I have two close friends who have both recently gotten COVID.

1) Vaccinated. He got sick, stayed home and self-isolated for 10 days. Had about two days where things were really bad for him. Just saw him this past Saturday, he was looking and feeling good.
2) Unvaccinated. She got sick, stayed home and self-isolated for the most part. I saw her (from a distance) in a public place while she had it, though. She thought she was better and was on a vacation last weekend then suddenly started feeling badly and began coughing up blood. Went into the hospital and was there for two days for blood clots in the lungs. It was touch and go for a bit with her - blood clots have been a major cause of COVID-related death. She is back home now, but is going to be on blood thinners for at least six months. Ultimate prognosis TBD.

Thought I'd toss this out there. It really makes sense, personally and for the good of society, to get vaccinated if you at all can do it. Seriously, there are no nanites, no micro-organisms sending Joe Biden your gmail password, no little green men and no fear of angering God, Buddha or the Flying Spaghetti Monster in the vaccine.

[Gray Lensman]

It is not unusual for some people to have a strong immune response to a vaccination, any vaccination. There is no danger in that. The danger is in NOT getting the Vaccine and ending up with the Real Actual COVID Virus, and ending up in an ICU and/or with Long Term COVID.

Millions, perhaps billions of people have had the vaccine without any problems.

When you say that you don't know what it is or what is in it, ask your doctor or do some research. I assume that you have had vaccinations before. This is a vaccine just like the ones you get as a child before going to school.

Also, I assume that you take over the counter medicines. Have you ever wondered how those meds are made or what is in them?

Bottom line, ask questions, ask your family Doctor. Just don't ask questions over Social Media.

Any two stage vaccine can have side effects - my mother had a non-covid two stage shot before everything went down (due to working in a hospital) and was sick for a day or two from it - but it is better than what she was being vaccinated against.

While people can be justifiably concerned about how fast the COVID vaccine was created, it isn't as fast as it looks. Much of the groundwork was already done years ago when one of the Swine Flus was a concern - except that one fizzled out. Big Pharma, not being in the business of throwing money out, filed the data away just in case it ever became useful later, as nasty flu epidemics used to strike every generation or so. COVID is a type of coronavirus, like the flu and the common cold - and is bad enough that the old research for an mRNA vaccine was dusted off, and due to similarities in how the viruses function, was able to fill in much of what the initial work would have been. Very large corporations often save everything for a later date, just in case. For a non pharma example, Hasbro has never sold nor relinquished an IP that I am aware of. Even if the last time a game was sold was 30 years ago, they will still sue anyone who tries to relaunch it other than themselves.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Well now I have two close friends who have both recently gotten COVID.

1) Vaccinated. He got sick, stayed home and self-isolated for 10 days. Had about two days where things were really bad for him. Just saw him this past Saturday, he was looking and feeling good.
2) Unvaccinated. She got sick, stayed home and self-isolated for the most part. I saw her (from a distance) in a public place while she had it, though. She thought she was better and was on a vacation last weekend then suddenly started feeling badly and began coughing up blood. Went into the hospital and was there for two days for blood clots in the lungs. It was touch and go for a bit with her - blood clots have been a major cause of COVID-related death. She is back home now, but is going to be on blood thinners for at least six months. Ultimate prognosis TBD.

Thought I'd toss this out there. It really makes sense, personally and for the good of society, to get vaccinated if you at all can do it. Seriously, there are no nanites, no micro-organisms sending Joe Biden your gmail password, no little green men and no fear of angering God, Buddha or the Flying Spaghetti Monster in the vaccine.

A first class cautionary tale about the perils of whistling past the graveyard by not getting vaccinated. Your friend who didn’t get the jab could well have died, and even though she survived, she’ll probably end up a COVID long hauler and have to deal with side effects from the virus for god only knows how long.

[JB]

(Taken from the other thread)

https://www.reuters.com/legal/govern...ta-2021-11-18/

They are asking for almost 400,000 pages, all of which have to be reviewed and redacted. The FDA says they can handle 500 a year.

Looks like the FDA released the first batch of Pfizer documents, 91 pages I believe, which can be viewed/downloaded here:
https://phmpt.org/pfizers-documents/
No better source of information than the creator itself.

[Catlady in training]

Apparently as covid passes are now required in Italy for many workers, some people try to obtain them by attending "Covid parties" with infected people.

https://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...ee70a7fd4420ec

A man has died and others are fighting for their lives after a slew of “corona parties” in Italy, where attendees went with the purpose of catching Covid.

The 55-year-old man died in Austria last week after being infected at a party in northern Italy.
Health officials believe the man was an anti-vaxxer who wanted to be infected with the virus to obtain a “green pass”. The passes are essentially vaccine passports that allow Italians to work, attend restaurants and use public transport.
They are only available to those who are vaccinated or who have recovered from Covid within the previous six months.

There are at least three more people, including a child, now hospitalised in northern Italy after catching the virus at similar parties. Two of these people are in intensive care.
To date, there have been more than 133,000 Covid-related deaths in Italy.

Local media reported that there had been multiple accounts of people deliberately trying to get infected.
Spreading the virus on purpose is a crime in Italy under state emergency laws which are set to remain in place until at least December 31.
“We have received more than one account from doctors of patients who admitted to having been infected on purpose,” Bolzano anti-Covid unit Patrick Franzoni told II Dolomiti.

“[They do this] to develop antibodies, and to obtain the green pass without vaccination,” he said.

“There are long-term consequences and even young people can end up in hospital.”

He explained the anti-vaxxers would meet in outdoor areas of bars and hug, kiss and share drinks with someone who is infected.

Bolzano, in the country’s north, is one of the hardest hit by the winter wave of Covid, which is currently sweeping across Europe.
It comes as there is a growing concern over a Christmas Covid crisis.

In other news, a Belgian doctor was arrested for selling at least 2 000 fake covid passes.
https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/b...ied-2000-csts/

If only there was a way to get immunity for free and without having to expose yourself to covid directly. If only.