Hellions #17 - Preview - A Great Captain gives an Order

[ExodusCloak]

Even if there is a lag, her telepathy on Krakoa should be able to alert her when Empath dies. Maybe it is presumptive to think she linked herself to Empath but still, even Mastermind's mind manipulation of Empath ,a telepath of her caliber should know that a mind has been tampered with.To say that every step of the way she has some sort of excuse is ridiculous.If it were Beast maybe ,but with Emma it doesn't fly.I'm not even arguing ,if you take memos as the 'alibi' more power to you.It's still contrived with all other instances combined.

And just to give you some thought, the reason why Sinister probably used a literal smokescreen is because Krakoans were watching the gate ,that in itself would pique the interest of the likes of Beast. However another thing is Krakoa sent the hellions on a serious mission to a place from which memories only mattered if someone survived because the zones were impervious to cerebro scans just like they sent Synch, Synch's mind probably has little time lag of loss otherwise going by your argument he wouldn't be certain Laura gave him a chance to escape.If the time-lag is so huge , a lot of mistakes can be made with what you infer from your own recall.Why do I say all this? It is likely certain groups X-Force ,Hellions and the crucible participants have Cerebro to fast track memory updates and have it calibrated to mere seconds of time loss.Otherwise for example Crucible participants won't have any recall of an event so hyped by Krakoa to make it so special for the individual in question.One cannot come out of it not remembering what happened.I know it's not backed up by a memo,but using our own logic doesn't hurt anyone.

I think you answered your own question. It is presumptuous that she is linked to Empath 24/7. And thats why for that brief moment where he stuck his head out of the gate he didnt get the chance to warn her.

This is supported by her coversation with Empath. She didn't give him a list of exact instructions he acted on his own accord with her blessing and relayed information to her when he got the chance.

Beasts memo does suggest mistrust of Sinister as he is Sinister. But with the lack of proof theres no way to act which is why he suggested a telepathic interrogation of Sinister.

Nightcrawlers mind had a time lag. Its stated in the earlier issues of HoX that Cerebro IIRC does scans every few days . With the Crucible I'm guessing they know these mutants are gonna die and back them up right before.

I'm also looking at the issue with Synch. He didn't die instantly and managed to contact the Professor in time which is shown on panel. Cerebro didn't auto back up

While Empath was "hey what are you doing" then he was dead

[Rev9]

Well like you said it is pretty presumptuous to think she held a constant telepathic link with empath as far as we know all she did was put a psychic suggestion in his had along with a psychic message for Sinister.

I don't think Emma put a psychic command in empaths head that said use your powers on Havoc so he can destroy his sinister's Chimera lab that also had some happens to hold psylocke's daughter's a DNA information.

I'm certain Empath needed no suggestion to do what he did, but I do not buy for a second that Emma didn't know there was trouble with Sinister until that late in the game.That is just making a mockery of fans intelligence.She knew and she made the problem worse by her inaction,at the very least she should have let the council know to nip it in the bud.

[Rev9]

I think you answered your own question. It is presumptuous that she is linked to Empath 24/7. And thats why for that brief moment where he stuck his head out of the gate he didnt get the chance to warn her.

This is supported by her coversation with Empath. She didn't give him a list of exact instructions he acted on his own accord with her blessing and relayed information to her when he got the chance.

Beasts memo does suggest mistrust of Sinister as he is Sinister. But with the lack of proof theres no way to act which is why he suggested a telepathic interrogation of Sinister.

Nightcrawlers mind had a time lag. Its stated in the earlier issues of HoX that Cerebro IIRC does scans every few days . With the Crucible I'm guessing they know these mutants are gonna die and back them up right before.

I'm also looking at the issue with Synch. He didn't die instantly and managed to contact the Professor in time which is shown on panel. Cerebro didn't auto back up

While Empath was "hey what are you doing" then he was dead

I think to make a solid argument we have to presume for the cases of Synch and Empath cerebri was scanning automatically at the very least for Xavier cannot know the day anyone returns from the zones they were sent to.Even if you rule out automatic scanning. to assume Xavier picked up Synch in Ecuador half a world away ,but couldn't pick up Empath at a gate on Krakoa is just absurd. My point is precisely that we should not differentiate rules of the crucible participants applying differently than those sent to Amenth or the vault.They are as good as dead going in there so cerebro backups for those minds have to be near instantaneous.For example it makes no sense to back up crucible minds so contemporaneously and not do the same for those in areas impervious to cerebro.Maybe you're not getting my logic,I don't know but for me it is a safe bet Empath's mind was backed up.Otherwise we are left with nothing but flimsy excuses that entire resurrection protocol team doesn't anticipate or make special arrangements for situations like I've described.

[ExodusCloak]

I think to make a solid argument we have to presume for the cases of Synch and Empath cerebri was scanning automatically at the very least for Xavier cannot know the day anyone returns from the zones they were sent to.Even if you rule out automatic scanning. to assume Xavier picked up Synch in Ecuador half a world away ,but couldn't pick up Empath at a gate on Krakoa is just absurd. My point is precisely that we should not differentiate rules of the crucible participants applying bdifferently than those sent to Amenth or the vault.They are as good as dead going in there so cerebro backups for those minds have to be near instantaneous.For example it makes no sense to back up crucible minds so contemporaneously and not do the same for those in areas impervious to cerebro.Maybe you're not getting my logic,I don't know but for me it is a safe bet Empath's mind was backed up.Otherwise we are left with nothing but flimsy excuses that entire resurrection protocol team doesn't anticipate or make special arrangements for situations like I've described.

Synch made contact with Xavier he didn't die instantaneously. This is shown on panel. Synch says "Professor" and this is confirmed during the resurrection. Synch told Xavier he was alive not the other way around.

Empath didn't make contact with Emma he died instantaneously. And wasn't really sure what happened prior to it.

[Rev9]

Synch made contact with Xavier he didn't die instantaneously. This is shown on panel. Synch says "Professor" and this is confirmed during the resurrection. Synch told Xavier he was alive not the other way around.

Empath didn't make contact with Emma he died instantaneously. And wasn't really sure what happened prior to it.

Wasn't really sure? He saw Sinister standing over a stabbed Psylocke. The 'what are you doing?' is said out of shock because of what he's seeing not coz he doesn't understand.Now you believe the mutant has to call out to a telepath to be backed up? That's dicey, what if you are carried through a barrier barely conscious or delirious? Anyway I think we have to agree to disagree because of the distance Ecuador is hundreds if not thousands of nautical miles away from Krakoa so if the signal reached that far how are we to believe cerebro cannot pick up functional brainwaves just on the island? That is just one plot point, the other is Emma failing to notice Mastermind had created a hallucination in her mole. She has to own this passing the buck by fans is pointless.

[ExodusCloak]

Wasn't really sure? He saw Sinister standing over a stabbed Psylocke. The 'what are you doing?' is said out of shock because of what he's seeing not coz he doesn't understand.Now you believe the mutant has to call out to a telepath to be backed up? That's dicey, what if you are carried through a barrier barely conscious or delirious? Anyway I think we have to agree to disagree because of the distance Ecuador is hundreds if not thousands of nautical miles away from Krakoa so if the signal reached that far how are we to believe cerebro cannot pick up functional brainwaves just on the island? That is just one plot point, the other is Emma failing to notice Mastermind had created a hallucination in her mole. She has to own this passing the buck by fans is pointless.

No body said that you're being deliberately obtuse. A telepath on Cerebro backs mutants up once week. A telepath can back someone up if they are aware the person is dire need of backing up. Synch made Xavier way. Empath did not.

Why would Emma notice that shes not sitting in his head 24/7 hes a mole. Telepaths block out the thoughts pf millions to avoid going crazy see X-Men Unlimited Volume 2. Empath is a mole he gathers information and reports back to her. Plus Murderworld was most likely psi shielded given this is Arcade.

Furthermore the fact is Beasts memo shows Empath wasn't backed up. This is conversation has reached the absolute bottom of the barrel. Your motive is fairly clear with every single one of your posts since you've registered.

Fyi distance doesn't matter to a telepath there is no lag. Hence why Lilandra and Xavier can chat without a lag

[MentalManipulator]

This looks so juicy!

I just wished they knew how to make Kwannon look actuelly japanese. And not just a woman with black hair.

[Rev9]

No body said that you're being deliberately obtuse. A telepath on Cerebro backs mutants up once week. A telepath can back someone up if they are aware the person is dire need of backing up. Synch made Xavier way. Empath did not.

Why would Emma notice that shes not sitting in his head 24/7 hes a mole. Telepaths block out the thoughts pf millions to avoid going crazy see X-Men Unlimited Volume 2. Empath is a mole he gathers information and reports back to her. Plus Murderworld was most likely psi shielded given this is Arcade.

Furthermore the fact is Beasts memo shows Empath wasn't backed up. This is conversation has reached the absolute bottom of the barrel. Your motive is fairly clear with every single one of your posts since you've registered.

Fyi distance doesn't matter to a telepath there is no lag. Hence why Lilandra and Xavier can chat without a lag

The backup schedule is a general schedule, but we know the Crucible fighters have to have near contemporaneous back up, anything less defeats the purpose.The scenario must be similar for teams going into hazardous places for very special missions.Using a generic template of backing up once a week doesn't hold because there is no timetable for when mutants will escape the said zone.Those back ups can't just be based on luck Synch and the Hellions had to more likely than not have cerebro ready to back them up ,because dying in Avalon is truly fatal.Rictor didn't die immediately after coming through the gate and maybe he came back because he died on Krakoa but that was a learning curve.This event still happened during XoS it is just prudent to have the nearest back up possible to give survivors the best chance of reporting on the mission. As I said believe the memos if you want, but there's ample reason to observe that Emma dropped the ball. I think let's just agree to disagree.

In this universe Xavier needed Jean to relay feedback from the orchis station on their mission.Shiar is way beyond that distance in another star system. Emma in the most recent issue of Marauders says contacting anyone was not possible as they were too far(not verbatim) but pretty much the gist. So distance clearly matters in current continuity. When you have a mole it is natural to get updates.It doesn't have to be on panel,but it is logical to presume she kept in touch with Empath ,how would he know to push Havok to destroy the lab if he didn't get direct approval from her to do so? He even said 'Emma says hi' or something to that effect..

[Hulkout42]

I am going to miss this book, it was one of the few X-books i felt were consistently good.

[ExodusCloak]

The backup schedule is a general schedule, but we know the Crucible fighters have to have near contemporaneous back up, anything less defeats the purpose.The scenario must be similar for teams going into hazardous places for very special missions.Using a generic template of backing up once a week doesn't hold because there is no timetable for when mutants will escape the said zone.Those back ups can't just be based on luck Synch and the Hellions had to more likely than not have cerebro ready to back them up ,because dying in Avalon is truly fatal.Rictor didn't die immediately after coming through the gate and maybe he came back because he died on Krakoa but that was a learning curve.This event still happened during XoS it is just prudent to have the nearest back up possible to give survivors the best chance of reporting on the mission. As I said believe the memos if you want, but there's ample reason to observe that Emma dropped the ball. I think let's just agree to disagree.

In this universe Xavier needed Jean to relay feedback from the orchis station on their mission.Shiar is way beyond that distance in another star system. Emma in the most recent issue of Marauders says contacting anyone was not possible as they were too far(not verbatim) but pretty much the gist. So distance clearly matters in current continuity. When you have a mole it is natural to get updates.It doesn't have to be on panel,but it is logical to presume she kept in touch with Empath ,how would he know to push Havok to destroy the lab if he didn't get direct approval from her to do so? He even said 'Emma says hi' or something to that effect..

Say it with me a machine does not update the Cradles by itself. It requires a mutant telepath. Who takes time out of their day to update the database weekly. If the day to update the database was Monday. That's when they sit down have their coffee and get to work. However if someone asked them to update the minds on Tuesday they could to.

The machine doesn't work with a living breathing person who needs to eat pee and sleep. They're not updating every second of the day. Which is why Synch had to alert Xavier that he is alive and please please update my mind. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand.

He didn't get direct approval to use Havok. Havok has the most destructive power. How would he know its obvious isn't it? He wasn't in touch with her 24/7. They got their evidence when Sinister revealed his plan.

Hellion was there to stop Sinister by any means. And he only interjected when Kwannon refused to.

Again it doesn't. Telepaths communicate through the astral plane so once a connection is established there is no lag. Distance comes into play when you wish to establish a connection but there is no lag once you find the mind. As shown countless times. Even when Emma projected to Mars twice. (During the Gala and when hungover after it)

[Rev9]

Say it with me a machine does not update the Cradles by itself. It requires a mutant telepath. Who takes time out of their day to update the database weekly. If the day to update the database was Monday. That's when they sit down have their coffee and get to work. However if someone asked them to update the minds on Tuesday they could to.

The machine doesn't work with a living breathing person who needs to eat pee and sleep. They're not updating every second of the day. Which is why Synch had to alert Xavier that he is alive and please please update my mind. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand.

He didn't get direct approval to use Havok. Havok has the most destructive power. How would he know its obvious isn't it? He wasn't in touch with her 24/7. They got their evidence when Sinister revealed his plan.

Hellion was there to stop Sinister by any means. And he only interjected when Kwannon refused to.

Again it doesn't. Telepaths communicate through the astral plane so once a connection is established there is no lag. Distance comes into play when you wish to establish a connection but there is no lag once you find the mind. As shown countless times. Even when Emma projected to Mars twice. (During the Gala and when hungover after it)

You go off on some tangents that have little relationship to what I said.Let me answer your main complaint though.Yes I did say it is possible that cerebro scans are done automatically.A scan I think is different from an update.Maybe a scan gathers all real time data, but an update is done by Xavier to parse what is current or what is replay of an old memory.That is hypothetical and I am not making it the nucleus of my argument. Let us lay down some realities in Krakoa even if there is no automatic scan, using cerebro is a full time job...that much we can agree on...Not only are Genoshans being resurrected daily, not only are repowered mutants going through the Crucible but updates of current living mutants have to be done once a week. Let me use 2 examples why my assumption that either the vault team or the Avalon team have special privilege is very plausible..

1.It is clear from Synch by saying 'You heard me' and remembering that Laura bought him time we can surmise the update was done that very day because the panel says 'now' and he is not missing any time not even a minute.

2.The clue you miss that is right there
on panel, is he is not resurrected alone! Why is he resurrected with Laura and Darwin despite Krakoa knowing he is the only one Cerebro picked up? As a fan you may tell yourself it's to show us fans they are all back and alive, sure that is from a writer's standpoint ,but in universe fans don't exist so sentimentality is the least plausible answer.They were all resurrected because Xavier had been ready repeatedly scanning for them all, likely daily and had their husks ready. Unfortunately only Synch came out with his memories intact. So even though they were ready to update all of them only Synch has a full and real update,Laura and Darwin have updates that may feel contemporaneous to them but they only have old back ups not because Xavier wasn't ready to update them ,but because they never made it out of the vault and all their memory logs of their time there are lost! So if all can be ready and resurrected that very day from the vault, why do you assume that Cerebro has to have old updates for Empath,Greycrow, and Psylocke? To me comparing the Synch resurrection(on panel) and the Avalon resurrection(off panel)hints that whoever was wearing the cerebro for the latter case, be it Xavier (but most likely Emma)intentionally kept this whole Sinister murder under wraps.Beast gets info but Xavier and those who wear the Cerebros are the ones who really know what happened not beast.I mean sure Beast gave the idea of resurrecting ORed with missing memories but is he always in the hatchery resurrecting mutants to have first hand info? This would be a spurious claim. So whatever Beast knows is what the person who resurrected that team wants him to know.It's that simple

As for Emma she herself states to the Marauders in the 'icesteroid' that the minds are too far to reach out to using her power for an S.O.S , so I follow this current continuity that hints that distance matters.The rest is just conjecture or borrowing from previous history which after all Moira's other lives may hold true in other lives just not life X

[WallStreeter]

This looks so juicy!

I just wished they knew how to make Kwannon look actuelly japanese. And not just a woman with black hair.

She does look Asian. Not all Asians or all Japanese look the same.

[Veitha]

Emma is being so manipulative in this book, I wish Psylocke or Havok could give her a proper response. But I like Psylocke for not giving a f*ck for what the White Queen wants to say.

I wonder what is going to be her order...

I appreciate Wells for writing Emma like this. I'm getting tired of Duggan's super-good-can't-do-anything-wrong Emma. He's making her boring. Emma is funny when she makes questionable things (and having Psylocke daughter die and manipulating Havok like that was veeery questionable)

Wells is doing the White Queen way more justice.

[Veitha]

How as they only had seconds to act? Emma learnt of the situation right then and there from Empath as Duggans X-Men had been alerted.

The whole reason why Empath was placed on the team in the first place was because Emma didn't trust Sinister. She had no proof of wrong doing to act though. For that matter Xavier and Magneto didn't trust him either they had Kwannon there for that reason.

Kwannon failed to act and Empath did. Really Empath should have been promoted for it

Emma clearly planted Havok in the team to use him. The post XoS issue made that clear. She didn't offer him psychological help when he was clearly in distress because it fit her plans.

I don't get the need to justify Emma's actions in this. Stan mindset, I guess.

Maybe Kwannon should have reached for help but keep in mind that she was in a very difficult position and she didn't have allies on the island when Sinister started to blackmail her. Also keep in mind that what Sinister was doing to Psylocke was pretty much the same thing he's doing to the rest of the quiet council with the genetic samples. We should say the same things about Xavier&co. since they are allowing all the Sinister shenanigans including the chimeras one

[Rnap22]

Cerebro is used by telepaths to update back ups of all mutants. Cerebro is a machine used to amplify and store those minds and memories, it doesn’t do it by itself. It’s done once a week by Charles. It literally says it in the photo above.

Synch reached out to Xavier. He was sent on a mission and was dying. If he died before reaching out, any memories of his time in the Vault would be gone and so he reached out.