Hellions #17 - Preview - A Great Captain gives an Order

[Diammandis]

She messed even more with Havok's mind by making Empath use him, the situation caused the death of Psylocke's daughter, she made everyone feel used... She could have talked to other someone to keep an eye on Sinister, someone who could handle the situation alone and cause less problems. But for me is the Alex situation the worst, the guy didn't deserve this.

The only person who should feel some way is Havok tbh and even then he seems quite fine now, does he not? Emma from what was presented in the books did not know of Psylockes daughter, no one knew about her daughter except for Sinister, the one she was working with, the one who if the chimeras were complete would have done much worse than what Emma did. I can see your point about Havok, i know he hates to be used and that suck that I didnt really like. But, to make it seem like Emma was the only dirty party is really strange they both were doing things for themselves, putting those around them at risk for very selfish reasons.

[BroHomo]

Yeah I missed some subtext between issues but I know Emma 'pushed' Havok into destroying whatever pods/virtual podcloud(?) That held Sini's chimera(?) Genetic...whatever and also Psylockes kid buuut that was for the overall good...and like the poster above mentioned no one knew about Psylockes kid but her and So I. Why would Emma get any flak at all??

[MYCMTSC]

I think I'm reading this scene way differently than everyone else. I don't think Kwannon nor Emma are being *that* rude in this.

Kwannon has her own agenda and Emma, by trying to serve Krakoa, is standing in her way. Both like being in charge.

[Rev9]

She messed even more with Havok's mind by making Empath use him, the situation caused the death of Psylocke's daughter, she made everyone feel used... She could have talked to other someone to keep an eye on Sinister, someone who could handle the situation alone and cause less problems. But for me is the Alex situation the worst, the guy didn't deserve this.

Agreed, Emma had Empath spying most probably from the very beginning, it doesn't make sense for her to initially trust Sinister and then not to.So by that logic wth was she doing when clearly even before Mastermind's compulsion ,Empath witnessed Sinister murder Psylocke and Greycrow?( but mostly the former).What was Emma doing all that time? As soon as she knew Sinister was betraying the team, she should have revealed it to the council.Instead she was playing her stupid games.I do not buy Emma's defence as doing what needed to be done..when in fact we know all this could have been avoided if she spoke to Exodus.Exodus can't stand sinister and would have totally wrecked the lab or anything Sinister was doing by himself.Emma just screwed everyone and everything big time.I don't know if Psylocke's daughter is a mutant but I suspect Exodus as recompense would resurrect her daughter by his own power(if she at least has her remains) to set things right.

[Drexelhand]

The only person who should feel some way is Havok tbh and even then he seems quite fine now, does he not? Emma from what was presented in the books did not know of Psylockes daughter, no one knew about her daughter except for Sinister, the one she was working with, the one who if the chimeras were complete would have done much worse than what Emma did. I can see your point about Havok, i know he hates to be used and that suck that I didnt really like. But, to make it seem like Emma was the only dirty party is really strange they both were doing things for themselves, putting those around them at risk for very selfish reasons.

Because actions have consequences and there's other ways Emma could have handled this. But she didn't and it's done now. It's reasonable for Psylocke to be angry at Emma - her daughter is gone for good and she probably doesn't care about the ends justifying the means. At the end of the day, Emma did a good job keeping Mr. Sinister in line and for everyone's sake, that's what's important.

[ExodusCloak]

Kwannon should be angry with herself. She should have went to someone earlier instead of allowing Sinister to do whatever he wanted.

Emma planted Empath there to act when Sinister crossed the line. He tried to inherit the God warping powers of Tarn. The moment this was shown, Kwannon had the chance to deal with it she didn't. And Empath did.

They had a few seconds to act after learning the plan and they did. There's a deliberate misreading of that Hellions issue by some people here for obvious reasons. They only learnt of Sinisters plan right then and there not issues before.

The stupid thing was promoting her to Captain but then again Colossus got given a seat

[ExodusCloak]

She messed even more with Havok's mind by making Empath use him, the situation caused the death of Psylocke's daughter, she made everyone feel used... She could have talked to other someone to keep an eye on Sinister, someone who could handle the situation alone and cause less problems. But for me is the Alex situation the worst, the guy didn't deserve this.

How as they only had seconds to act? Emma learnt of the situation right then and there from Empath as Duggans X-Men had been alerted.

The whole reason why Empath was placed on the team in the first place was because Emma didn't trust Sinister. She had no proof of wrong doing to act though. For that matter Xavier and Magneto didn't trust him either they had Kwannon there for that reason.

Kwannon failed to act and Empath did. Really Empath should have been promoted for it

[Rev9]

Kwannon should be angry with herself. She should have went to someone earlier instead of allowing Sinister to do whatever he wanted.

Emma planted Empath there to act when Sinister crossed the line. He tried to inherit the God warping powers of Tarn. The moment this was shown, Kwannon had the chance to deal with it she didn't. And Empath did.

They had a few seconds to act after learning the plan and they did. There's a deliberate misreading of that Hellions issue by some people here for obvious reasons. They only learnt of Sinisters plan right then and there not issues before.

The stupid thing was promoting her to Captain but then again Colossus got given a seat

I think Psylocke should never have given Sinister anything to hold over her by trusting him with a request to bring back her daughter.That error is on her to trust him.In fact it's not like he fooled her in the moment but his reputation is what completely scuttled Psylocke's chance of reunion.Be that as it may,the whole fiasco was caused by Emma.Emma bares responsibility not for having a mole, but for only waiting for Sinister to get so far into this scheme, while Sinister could have been stopped as soon as he murdered the team,not waiting for murderworld to become actualised.Emma is an incompetent fool , there's no sugarcoating it.

[ExodusCloak]

I think Psylocke should never have given Sinister anything to hold over her by trusting him with a request to bring back her daughter.That error is on her to trust him.In fact it's not like he fooled her in the moment but his reputation is what completely scuttled Psylocke's chance of reunion.Be that as it may,the whole fiasco was caused by Emma.Emma bares responsibility not for having a mole, but for only waiting for Sinister to get so far into this scheme, while Sinister could have been stopped as soon as he murdered the team,not waiting for murderworld to become actualised.Emma is an incompetent fool , there's no sugarcoating it.

She didn't know he was the one who murdered the team. And she needed proof to act against him. Not trusting him is not a reason to go and wreck his lab. Same for Mystique not trusting her is not a reason to go and wrexk her home without proof.

Emma wasn't monitoring the whole conversation. It was Empath who alerted her once they had proof and also Kwannons failure to act.

It wasn't Emma who gave Empath instructions to use Havok. He acted as he saw fit under the sanction of her to stop Sinister.

As much as you hate Emma which is obvious from every post ffom Feb 2020. She was right here.

[Rev9]

She didn't know he was the one who murdered the team. And she needed proof to act against him. Not trusting him is not a reason to go and wreck his lab. Same for Mystique not trusting her is not a reason to go and wrexk her home without proof.

Emma wasn't monitoring the whole conversation. It was Empath who alerted her once they had proof and also Kwannons failure to act.

It wasn't Emma who gave Empath instructions to use Havok. He acted as he saw fit under the sanction of her to stop Sinister.

As much as you hate Emma which is obvious from every post ffom Feb 2020. She was right here.

How could she not know when Empath saw Sinister standing over a stabbed Psylocke? Maybe her telepathy cannot reach into Avalon, but it is shocking if she didn't know seeing as how she is shown using Cerebro as well during some resurrections.Moreover as a telepath another tripwire is Mastermind's manipulation to get murderworld going.I know fans of Emma will make up any excuse ,but she is incompetent.At the point of spoiling Sinister's plan she and her mole have been communicating and she has it all figured out ,but at all earlier points she is clueless? That's contrived af

[ExodusCloak]

How could she not know when Empath saw Sinister standing over a stabbed Psylocke? Maybe her telepathy cannot reach into Avalon, but it is shocking if she didn't know seeing as how she is shown using Cerebro as well during some resurrections.Moreover as a telepath another tripwire is Mastermind's manipulation to get murderworld going.I know fans of Emma will make up any excuse ,but she is incompetent.At the point of soiling Sinister's plan she and her mole have been communicating and she has it all figured out ,but at all earlier points she is clueless? That's contrived af

Did you read Swords of X? Cerebro back ups don't back up in Otherworld. And you're missing time when ressurected hence Onslaught
And in the actual series Beasts memo says they don't know how the Hellions died. He suggests getting a telepath to probe his mind for answers.

Its fairly clear that Empath was there because she didn't trust him but proof was only available then and there. Kwannon wss there as Xavier and Magneto didn't trust him either. But they had no proof of any betrayal

If you read the actual series its confirmed that the QC don't trust Sinister but have no proof how the Hellions died

[Rev9]

Did you read Swords of X? Cerebro back ups don't back up in Otherworld. And you're missing time when ressurected hence Onslaught
And in the actual series Beasts memo says they don't know how the Hellions died. He suggests getting a telepath to probe his mind for answers.

Its fairly clear that Empath was there because she didn't trust him but proof was only available then and there. Kwannon wss there as Xavier and Magneto didn't trust him either. But they had no proof of any betrayal

If you read the actual series its confirmed that the QC don't trust Sinister but have no proof how the Hellions died

Oh I've read the series, going back to the book it's clear Sinister kills Havok and Psylocke and Greycrow on Krakoa just moments after they walk through the gate.Empath sticks his head through the gate sees Sinister standing over a stabbed Psylocke and says 'What are you doing?' and then dies, his head is in Krakoa, already through the gate, so there is no way this is missed during resurrection.The otherworld caveat does not apply.That panel alone makes all the memos by Beast absolutely senseless (or if the writers went against their own logic contrived as I said) Emma is indifensible honestly.Go and read the issue and try to reconcile it with everything else and you'll see Emma is incompetent.

[ExodusCloak]

Oh I've read the series, going back to the book it's clear Sinister kills Havok and Psylocke and Greycrow on Krakoa just moments after they walk through the gate.Empath sticks his head through the gate sees Sinister standing over a stabbed Psylocke and says 'What are you doing?' and then dies, his head is in Krakoa, already through the gate, so there is no way this is missed during resurrection.The otherworld caveat does not apply.That panel alone makes all the memos by Beast absolutely senseless (or if the writers went against their own logic contrived as I said) Emma is indifensible honestly.Go and read the issue and try to reconcile it with everything else and you'll see Emma is incompetent.

Oh grand so you must have skimmed over the bit where people who get ressurected are missing their last few memories leading up to their death? Meaning Empath would not have those memories. You get ressurected from when Cerebro last backed you up so theres a lag. This has been shown across the X-Line from House of X to Spurriers Onslaught.

Like this is absurd this has just become an argument over 'I don't like what the writer has written so I'm gonna ignore it and fill in the gaps with what I prefer " If Beasts memo says the QC don't know they don't know

[Rev9]

Oh grand so you must have skimmed over the bit where people who get ressurected are missing their last few memories leading up to their death? Meaning Empath would not have those memories. You get ressurected from when Cerebro last backed you up so theres a lag. This has been shown across the X-Line from House of X to Spurriers Onslaught.

Like this is absurd this has just become an argument over 'I don't like what the writer has written so I'm gonna ignore it and fill in the gaps with what I prefer " If Beasts memo says the QC don't know they don't know

Even if there is a lag, her telepathy on Krakoa should be able to alert her when Empath dies. Maybe it is presumptive to think she linked herself to Empath but still, even Mastermind's mind manipulation of Empath ,a telepath of her caliber should know that a mind has been tampered with.To say that every step of the way she has some sort of excuse is ridiculous.If it were Beast maybe ,but with Emma it doesn't fly.I'm not even arguing ,if you take memos as the 'alibi' more power to you.It's still contrived with all other instances combined.

And just to give you some thought, the reason why Sinister probably used a literal smokescreen is because Krakoans were watching the gate ,that in itself would pique the interest of the likes of Beast. However another thing is Krakoa sent the hellions on a serious mission to a place from which memories only mattered if someone survived because the zones were impervious to cerebro scans just like they sent Synch, Synch's mind probably has little time lag of loss otherwise going by your argument he wouldn't be certain Laura gave him a chance to escape.If the time-lag is so huge , a lot of mistakes can be made with what you infer from your own recall.Why do I say all this? It is likely certain groups X-Force ,Hellions and the crucible participants have Cerebro to fast track memory updates and have it calibrated to mere seconds of time loss.Otherwise for example Crucible participants won't have any recall of an event so hyped by Krakoa to make it so special for the individual in question.One cannot come out of it not remembering what happened.I know it's not backed up by a memo,but using our own logic doesn't hurt anyone.

[loke13]

Even if there is a lag, her telepathy on Krakoa should be able to alert her when Empath dies. Maybe it is presumptive to think she linked herself to Empath but still, even Mastermind's mind manipulation of Empath ,a telepath of her caliber should know that a mind has been tampered with.To say that every step of the way she has some sort of excuse is ridiculous.If it were Beast maybe ,but with Emma it doesn't fly.I'm not even arguing ,if you take memos as the 'alibi' more power to you.It's still contrived with all other instances combined.

And just to give you some thought, the reason why Sinister probably used a literal smokescreen is because Krakoans were watching the gate ,that in itself would pique the interest of the likes of Beast. However another thing is Krakoa sent the hellions on a serious mission to a place from which memories only mattered if someone survived because the zones were impervious to cerebro scans just like they sent Synch, Synch's mind probably has little time lag of loss otherwise going by your argument he wouldn't be certain Laura gave him a chance to escape.If the time-lag is so huge , a lot of mistakes can be made with what you infer from your own recall.Why do I say all this? It is likely certain groups X-Force ,Hellions and the crucible participants have Cerebro to fast track memory updates and have it calibrated to mere seconds of time loss.Otherwise for example Crucible participants won't have any recall of an event so hyped by Krakoa to make it so special for the individual in question.One cannot come out of it not remembering what happened.I know it's not backed up by a memo,but using our own logic doesn't hurt anyone.

Well like you said it is pretty presumptuous to think she held a constant telepathic link with empath as far as we know all she did was put a psychic suggestion in his had along with a psychic message for Sinister.

I don't think Emma put a psychic command in empaths head that said use your powers on Havoc so he can destroy his sinister's Chimera lab that also had some happens to hold psylocke's daughter's a DNA information.