The Retirement thread (no hate please)

[Will Evans]

Bruce was rejuvenated in a Scott Snyder version of Lazarus Pit when he died so right now he has a body in his prime while being logically 40-something. Hal became younger when he returned as human from the Spectre, still don't know how that work, especially since Carol doesn't get old too, same with Barry and Iris, but point is... they'll find a way.

Iris should be grandmother age.

[lemonpeace]

For the Steel family, big no.

For the elder JSA, yes. They e earned their retirement. Especially with so many of them dead already. Alan, Jay and Ted. Libby too. Jim Corrigan should have stayed retired/dead.

you can big no if you want, thats not what this thread is for. (clearly you were not reading the OP *shrugs*). I already gave my reason so I'm doubling down: the Steels should be retired.

if the Trinity doesn't retire or get older it doesn't make sense for other heroes their same age or younger to hang it up outside of severe injury or death

The Trinity stays in this ambiguous 28 to 40 range, so unless you allow those linchpins to age it'd be incredibly strange for their contemporariries of juniors to age.

That said Superman and Wonder Woman could be ageless. So we're really talking about Bruce, Ollie, Hal, Dinah and everyone from that generation aging. The second and third generation have to be allowed to assume the main spots for this idea to work

rule 1 man. I'm not interested in hypthetical backseat editorial politicking, this ain't the thread for that. if you want Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, or whoever to retired then make a case for why and how you'd do it. just about everyone on this forum is aware of these kinds of character hierarchy issues, I made the rules of this thread explicitly to avoid these kinda trite takes. like, with all due respect, not every thread needs to be "complain about DC time" big dude.

[Ascended]

Not surprising since I champion the idea, but I'm down with Tim Drake retiring to a detective/PI role and hanging up the cape. What does he add as another Robin these days? What benefit does he really get from it? Nothing; he just floats from one bad idea to another while DC tries to figure out to do with him. Better for him to retire (at least for a while) and work as a detective/PI; as a retired hero working with the GCPD (or running his own PI firm) he'd offer a fresh perspective you won't find with the other vigilantes. People see "no costume" and immediately think its a demotion, but its not like the kid is getting his due in the first place, and a pulp flavored, old school detective would be a pretty fun thing to explore.

Actually, since DC is all about Jon Kent these days, Conner Kent can "retire" and join Tim, running a detective agency or something. I don't feel like Conner is at a point where he "should" retire, or even one where it makes a lot of sense for him to do so, but with Jon the new El heir apparent, Conner is, for the first time, in a position where his future is his own and nobody is expecting him to replace Clark. What does Conner do with that freedom? Maybe he decides to help his BFF and leave the full-time superheroics to other people for a while?

I'd like to see John Stewart get promoted and take a role in the GLC beyond "active duty combatant." He's a hell of a smart guy, a military man, tons of experience....you'd be hard pressed to find someone better suited to running the Corps than John, but doing that right means stepping away from the day-to-day action. I say we get rid of the black-and-green costume and change it in for red and white robes. Does that count as retirement? Making him a Guardian (again)?

Likewise, I wouldn't argue too much if Guy Gardner retired and just ran Warriors Bar on Oa. I love Guy, he's one of my favorite Lanterns, and my ideal "retirement" would be him joining the Red Lanterns again, and treating that group like the space motorcycle gang it was under Soule's run (so many former soldiers I know ended up joining MC's, and it fits Guy perfectly). But I'd accept Guy just running the equivalent of a cop bar on Oa too.

Wouldn't argue with Jay Garrick, Allan Scott, and Ted Grant all retiring and filling the role of teachers and mentors to younger heroes either. Let them enjoy their golden years and teach the kids over at Titans Academy, or in a new JSA or Infinity Inc or something.

As for Steel, I feel like he's semi-retired already. Rarely do we see him suit up now, it's typically Nat who swings the hammer these days. I'd prefer John Henry to be active as Steel, but since DC barely uses him anyway we might as well make the most of it and really double down on what he brings to the table as a non-combatant and resident Super science guy.

And honestly, if it were handled delicately I wouldn't necessarily be against the Big 6 retiring. Let Clark focus on United Planets politics and social issues, Bruce can run the ever-growing army of Bats (ala Batman Beyond), Diana can focus on spreading the Amazon philosophy of loving submission around the world via social outreach programs, Arthur can focus on ruling Atlantis (or helping Mera do it anyway?), Barry can focus on his CSI career and help Wally with investigations, and Hal can sit back and enjoy an ice tea on some sweet alien beach somewhere. As long as everyone else stepped up to fill that void (meaning Nightwing, Wally, etc., are treated as the big deal, top heroes they are) and the Big 6 were still getting plenty of panel time and playing strong roles in the story, I could perhaps accept them all setting the costumes aside. I'd miss them in their classic forms, but that's what Elseworlds and flashback stories are for.

[Vordan]

Black Lightning. Jefferson has two daughters who can take over for him, he can serve as a mentor to them the way Jay does in the Flash family. He’s also got the teaching aspect to him which could work better as a mentor.

Ted Kord. Assuming he’s even still around (I haven’t kept up with him), Ted shouldn’t be suiting up anymore, he should just be a mentor to Jaime.

Kent Nelson. Pretty much has already happened but I hope DC doesn’t backslide and bring Kent back as Fate once the Black Adam movie comes out. That should be Khalid’s role from now on.

For Hal I’m ok with him getting married to Carol, having kids, and switching to a reserve GL. Bring him back for when someone actually has a big plan for him, or keep using him in Elseworlds like the Earth One books and Last Ride.

And since you came for Irons I’ll come for yours , Duke should get his parents back and retire. We have a Black Batman in Jace, another black side Batfamily member in Luke, Duke just isn’t special or interesting enough to justify sticking around. There should be a big story where he heals his parents and then he retires and maybe cameos occasionally.

[lemonpeace]

And since you came for Irons I’ll come for yours , Duke should get his parents back and retire. We have a Black Batman in Jace, another black side Batfamily member in Luke, Duke just isn’t special or interesting enough to justify sticking around. There should be a big story where he heals his parents and then he retires and maybe cameos occasionally.

ya know what? fair is fair, you're right, I did come for the Irons...but I also came PREPARED!! (haven't gotten to use this in a while) you've activated my trap card!!



I'm gonna respectfully disagree with your attack for 4 reasons:
1. Duke isn't black Batman or Bruce's black sidekick. Duke has never (other than Tales) been or aspired to be Batman, negating Jace comparisons, and despite training under him and working together during that time, Duke has always been a solo hero as the Signal; which kinda negates Batwing comparisons but he isn't really a sidekick either. also as the only Batfam Metahuman he fills unique role from them regardless, in addition to being the daylight protector and the batfam member best suited to be on Outsiders (more on that in reason 3).

2. curing his parents wouldn't retire him because while finding and healing them has always been a goal, it was never the sole motivating factor for his heroism. also, because Gnomon exists, the moment Elaine is healed Duke's story is actually opened even further because she has a lot to answer for.

3. building on #1 and #2, because of Gnomon and Elaine Duke is the sole active/visible character right now connected to the unique history of metahumans and immortals introduced in Dark Days and elaborated in Immortal Men. meaning he, despite being relegated to Gotham, occupies a unique space in the DC universe with a built in niche for worldbuilding. this is something that is actually bolstered by him being a significant member of the Outsiders, a team known for dealing with Metahuman affairs. this means that, unlike the Steels who are only really distinct among the Superfamily, Duke away from the Batfamily is still an idiosyncratic character within the larger DC universe. on top of that, his combination of skills and meta abilities is pretty unique among DC heroes in general, black or otherwise, the Irons can not say the same.

4. rule #3 of my OP, the thread was never about characters retiring and disappearing/being reduced to cameos. it's about characters finding more interesting directions by dropping hero identities. thanks to Future State, Duke is immune to this because we've already seen that Duke indeed can and would be more compelling if he foregoes the hero identity and goes public. he's already half way there, due to him not having a hero name for so long, his name is already more popular, known, and utilized by the general audiences than his hero name.

now I put a card face down and end my turn.

[Frontier]

ya know what? fair is fair, you're right, I did come for the Irons...but I also came PREPARED!! (haven't gotten to use this in a while) you've activated my trap card!!



I'm gonna respectfully disagree with your attack for 4 reasons:
1. Duke isn't black Batman or Bruce's black sidekick. Duke has never (other than Tales) been or aspired to be Batman, negating Jace comparisons, and despite training under him and working together during that time, Duke has always been a solo hero as the Signal; which kinda negates Batwing comparisons but he isn't really a sidekick either. also as the only Batfam Metahuman he fills unique role from them regardless, in addition to being the daylight protector and the batfam member best suited to be on Outsiders (more on that in reason 3).

2. curing his parents wouldn't retire him because while finding and healing them has always been a goal, it was never the sole motivating factor for his heroism. also, because Gnomon exists, the moment Elaine is healed Duke's story is actually opened even further because she has a lot to answer for.

3. building on #1 and #2, because of Gnomon and Elaine Duke is the sole active/visible character right now connected to the unique history of metahumans and immortals introduced in Dark Days and elaborated in Immortal Men. meaning he, despite being relegated to Gotham, occupies a unique space in the DC universe with a built in niche for worldbuilding. this is something that is actually bolstered by him being a significant member of the Outsiders, a team known for dealing with Metahuman affairs. this means that, unlike the Steels who are only really distinct among the Superfamily, Duke away from the Batfamily is still an idiosyncratic character within the larger DC universe. on top of that, his combination of skills and meta abilities is pretty unique among DC heroes in general, black or otherwise, the Irons can not say the same.

4. rule #3 of my OP, the thread was never about characters retiring and disappearing/being reduced to cameos. it's about characters finding more interesting directions by dropping hero identities. thanks to Future State, Duke is immune to this because we've already seen that Duke indeed can and would be more compelling if he foregoes the hero identity and goes public. he's already half way there, due to him not having a hero name for so long, his name is already more popular, known, and utilized by the general audiences than his hero name.

now I put a card face down and end my turn.

I kind of want to rebut John Henry now but that would probably just derail the thread .

[lemonpeace]

I kind of want to rebut John Henry now but that would probably just derail the thread .

here's the thing, I don't mind respectful critiques or rebuttals. just don't try to shutdown, shit on, or try to out and out vito someone else's idea. I refutted Vordan, partially because I knew people were gonna come for my guy for some of my picks, but also because know they have no real malice and I know we can respectfully disagree. if you have a compelling reason that they need the cape, feel free to share it. again, I wanna stress, the thread isn't about removing anyone from the field; at least not nessasarily. it's just characters you feel could be used better outside of the costume. all my picks, I gave them all things to do because I would 100% read a series about their exploits post-cape or with them as a featured player in a team up/ensemble book.

[Restingvoice]

Harley, since she's pretty much a Batfam now. Actually becoming a psychiatrist that heroes and villains can defer to because of her experience in both... and I personally think, because of her personality, she'd still be funny and interesting.



People would argue that Harley's more interesting in costume, so this is just for me personally. Since my main interest tend to be plot or character development, I was never that interested in Harley going on random adventures. Like it's a book I like to read once in a while because it's entertaining and fun, but is never my priority because it's off to the side doing its own thing.

Having her involved in a main plot involving mental health would interests me more.

[Vordan]

Or at least put Harley in jail for a little while, that she just arbitrarily gets to join the good guys without facing any consequences for her time as Joker’s GF bugs me to no end.

[lemonpeace]

Harley, since she's pretty much a Batfam now. Actually becoming a psychiatrist that heroes and villains can defer to because of her experience in both... and I personally think, because of her personality, she'd still be funny and interesting.



People would argue that Harley's more interesting in costume, so this is just for me personally. Since my main interest tend to be plot or character development, I was never that interested in Harley going on random adventures. Like it's a book I like to read once in a while because it's entertaining and fun, but is never my priority because it's off to the side doing its own thing.

Having her involved in a main plot involving mental health would interests me more.

I really did this idea. like sanctuary but without all the secrecy and the gloomy atmosphere

Or at least put Harley in jail for a little while, that she just arbitrarily gets to join the good guys without facing any consequences for her time as Joker’s GF bugs me to no end.

hmmm maybe the reason she "retires" is she turns herself in, legitimately stands trail, and as punishment she has to do some ungodly number of hours of pro bono therapy for various heroes, villains, and people affected by the actions of heroes and villains.

[skyvolt2000]

Vixen.

She semi-retires and uses her model agency and business to be a cover for an underground super hero team.

Something to the tune of America's Top Modelish-she takes her show all over the country and world with the contestants being heroes under cover.

Lets say there is a rumor of Toyman making killer toys in Seattle-have a show there with someone undercover-who can get eliminated from the show and be free to deal with Toyman. No one would suspect anything because they would be too busy looking at Vixen to act and she's not.

A good way to showcase various characters if you were to do a mini series. Heck have a contest with fans to figure out who is who.


Dr Beth Chapel and a few other heroes who are medical folks-retire them and let them redo the Sanctuary from Heroes in Crisis and show Bat God how it is done. Once again another way to show MIA folks-so for those wondering is blank alive-let them pop up.

Bronze Tiger-he takes a break more than retires and deals with his nephew-yes he has a nephew and trains him. Since the nephew does have a business that his mother left him when she was killed. Lets see Bronze run that before he gets tired of it and go back active while nephew does the opposite.

[Frontier]

Or at least put Harley in jail for a little while, that she just arbitrarily gets to join the good guys without facing any consequences for her time as Joker’s GF bugs me to no end.

If they really wanted to commit to a believable redemption, I think this would have to happen. And be more impactful than Frost's arc in Flash season 7.

[Gaius]

My friends, Harley facing consequences for her actions goes against the entire raison d'être of the character. It's as contradictory a statement as saying Batman shouldn't dress as a bat.

I guess since Tim and Conner already got brought up, an idea I had for retiring one of the Wonder Girls (either Cassie or Donna) was for one of them to found a women's shelter program

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Or at least put Harley in jail for a little while, that she just arbitrarily gets to join the good guys without facing any consequences for her time as Joker’s GF bugs me to no end.

I'm not a regular reader of Harley Quinn, but I've seen plenty of stories of her in jail. And with her looooooong service within the Suicide Squad, her criminal record should be expunged by now. Plus, her current series seems to be all about her making amends for her past crimes.

[Restingvoice]

Yes, she has to, even if it's through service in Suicide Squad. Otherwise, she won't be able to renew her license, and I was thinking of her actually going legit and not just limited to the superhero world where she doesn't have to be legalized.