If X-Men borrows from the Civil Rights Era, why did Claremont not create. . .

[SecretWarrior]

More Black male heroes? Or male heroes who were American POC? Most of his POC were women, while the guys he created were White. Wondering if this has ever been touched on.

Of course, he did create males who were POC, like Neal Shaara, but they were usually foreign. It seems strange to me to borrow from the Civil Rights Movement and to drop the N-word in God Loves, Man Kills (my favorite X-Men story), but this seems like it's either cultural appropriation or bordering on it.

[davetvs]

Did women of color have no place in the civil rights movement?

[Triniking1234]

Do you all always think about race when you read comic books?

Also the civil rights thing were Stan Lee's words and last time I checked Claremont and Lee were two different people.

[SecretWarrior]

Did women of color have no place in the civil rights movement?

Why do you think I'm attacking women of color? Are they the only ones involved in the CRM? Out of all the white males he created, he could have created male POC too, right? Instead of just co-opting the culture.

[SecretWarrior]

Do you all always think about race when you read comic books?

Also the civil rights thing were Stan Lee's words and last time I checked Claremont and Lee were two different people.

So Chris Claremont didn't use allegories to the CRM when he dropped the N-word in God Loves, Man Kills?

[SecretWarrior]

[jwatson]

LMAO so we going all the way there today. well okay. i see you.

[SecretWarrior]

LMAO so we going all the way there today. well okay. i see you.

He typed it at his desk. I don't see why you're coming for me.

[MythicalChicken]

More Black male heroes? Or male heroes who were American POC? Most of his POC were women, while the guys he created were White. Wondering if this has ever been touched on.

Of course, he did create males who were POC, like Neal Shaara, but they were usually foreign. It seems strange to me to borrow from the Civil Rights Movement and to drop the N-word in God Loves, Man Kills (my favorite X-Men story), but this seems like it's either cultural appropriation or bordering on it.

I believe it's been discussed, but my .02 is that's applying today's standards to a very different cultural time. I view how Claremont dealt with the "metaphor" element of X-men to be a stepping stone to get to the point where we are today culturally: by turning the metaphor onto really beautiful white folk largely, It helped instill how ridiculous prejudice and discrimination really are, which very much helped drive that point home to someone like myself at an early age. No I don't think it holds up as well now; but honestly Claremont did his share to pave the way to better representation or at least treating the concept with greater consideration.

And while he didn't create him, Claremont easily wrote the best (if not one of the best) Bishop put to page.

It also begs the consideration that how easily representation/appropriation can get very petty: socio-economic range, wildly international casts, numerous indigenous characters (not counting those shapeshifted into minorities), the Claremazon (god love 'em), coded LBGT ... we might have caught up to him, and some might not have a great look now (shapeshifting into minorities was a bit much) but he was way, way ahead of his time.

[SecretWarrior]

It also begs the consideration that how easily representation/appropriation can get very petty: socio-economic range, wildly international casts, numerous indigenous characters (not counting those shapeshifted into minorities), the Claremazon (god love 'em), coded LBGT ... we might have caught up to him, and some might not have a great look now (shapeshifting into minorities was a bit much) but he was way, way ahead of his time.

On this point, the rebuttal would be that he didn't borrow as much from those classifications as he did from the CRM, so it's an appropriation without credit issue, like taking the songs of black artists and giving them to white performers.

I have no doubt that for X-men to have been popular at the time, it had to be largely white, even just to make it past editorial. But a very small percentage of characters he created were AA or POC, and almost all who were were women of color. It's like Disney having Diverse Princesses, but largely White Princes, with it being okay for WoC to date out, but not White women. I just find it to project a strange view in either case.

Of course, he's not the be-all-end-all of the franchise, which overall isn't plagued by a representation issue.

[jwatson]

He typed it at his desk. I don't see why you're coming for me.

and he's the dude i drew in my avatar with Storm. Personally i don't hold it against him but then i know the definition of the word and usually know a real one when i see it.

This and the bishop post send up flags for me, i could be wrong but the consecutive obsession with race and some of the "science" behind the reasoning is a bit strange. Not coming for you but definitely trying to see what exactly your trying to say.

[Triniking1234]

So Chris Claremont didn't use allegories to the CRM when he dropped the N-word in God Loves, Man Kills?

Or maybe he was just referencing regular racism which was still around in the 1980s.

[SecretWarrior]

Or maybe he was just referencing regular racism which was still around in the 1980s.

Yes, there's no way X-Men borrowed from the Civil Rights Movement-- And God Loves, Man Kills didn't also have black lynching imagery-- Oh, wait:

[SecretWarrior]

and he's the dude i drew in my avatar with Storm. Personally i don't hold it against him but then i know the definition of the word and usually know a real one when i see it.

This and the bishop post send up flags for me, i could be wrong but the consecutive obsession with race and some of the "science" behind the reasoning is a bit strange. Not coming for you but definitely trying to see what exactly your trying to say.

Stop reading between the lines-- You're bad at it.

This has been percolating in my head for a while. Since I've been holding back, it all came out at once.

[jwatson]

Stop reading between the lines-- You're bad at it.

This has been percolating in my head for a while. Since I've been holding back, it all came out at once.

Well i definitely apologize for being bad at reading between the lines. I had no idea of knowing you have just been dangling the thoughts of kitty saying the n word, bishop not being black, claremont not being about that civil rights movement and black kids being lynched and needed to get it out.

I personally would suggest one long post next time so we don't have to piece it all together and read between the lines.