When Were Mystique & Destiny Said to be an Item?

[Slimybug]

Was this one of the first LGBT+ notions ever shown in mainstream comics, if not the first?

[BroHomo]

Was this one of the first LGBT+ notions ever shown in mainstream comics, if not the first?

Prob not...I mean Northstar

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Was this one of the first LGBT+ notions ever shown in mainstream comics, if not the first?

If I'm not mistaken, it wasn't an official thing directly on panel until X-Men Grand Design a couple years ago.

[Devaishwarya]

In true Claremont fashion...so as not to blatantly go against Comic Code rules...he subtextualised many ideas that would otherwise be seen as "problematic" for the times. Whether or not that was his actual intention(s) you would have to ask him...but...from a storytelling perspective it's not very difficult with Mystique and Irene to put "two and two together" and have them go from close companions deeply loyal to each other, to wife and wife.

[CoCoBandz]

Wait people actually saw them as not a thing at some point?

[BroHomo]

Wait people actually saw them as not a thing at some point?

I didn't. But I think I'm just naturally inclined to ignore it

[Anduinel]

Claremont was under the same constraints wrt Mystique and Destiny as Byrne was with Northstar - anything he wanted to include with regards to the characters being queer had to be done via subtext. But he did a good job considering the limitations:

https://twitter.com/meakoopa/status/...428606464?s=20

[Thirteen]

UNCANNY X-MEN Vol 1 265 (1990) was the most direct reference to Raven and Irene being a couple, with Shadow King referring to Destiny as Mystique's "leman", an archaic word for "lover" that Claremont used to slip past the editors who were bound by the Comics Code Authority at the time.
Prior to that the 2 are depicted dancing together with Mystique in the form of a man - ironically, Claremont played with the idea of having Raven be a shape changing transgender but couldn't do it outright because of the same restrictions of the times - in 1988 MARVEL FANFARE #40

References:
https://gayleague.com/destiny-mystique/
https://www.comicsbeat.com/history-x...tiny-mystique/

[Confuzzled]

Prob not...I mean Northstar

Naah, Marvel had some queer rapists in the early 80's including some men who tried to rape Bruce Banner and a teenager named Skip who molested kid Peter Parker:



DC was (kinda) more progressive as it had a flaming gay superhero in the 80's, Extrano



But he got AIDS from a vampire so...

The first positive LGBT representation in Marvel came in 1987's Spider-Man: The Wedding issue, where real life gay fashion designer Willi Smith gifted Mary Jane the wedding dress he designed for her. Smith was actually commissioned to design the dress by Marvel and then they included him in the story as MJ's canon friend.

[Exodus]

I remember a panel in X-Treme X-Men by Claremont where it became very clear that Irene and Mystique were always lovers. Happy to see that it was already heavyly implied in 1990/late 80s.

Lovers1.jpg

still would love to see the reveal that Irene is actually Nightcrawler's mother and Mystique his father!!

[Foon4000]

Destiny and Mystique have been a couple since Uncanny X-Men #141, Jan. 1981.

Wait people actually saw them as not a thing at some point?

CC was (consciously or unconsciously) aware that you can depict two women being lifelong, loving and affectionate partners and most heterosexuals will put them down as 'lifelong BFFs' ('Your cousin has been living with her good buddy ever since she got divorced- they must be really close!').

[dragon1440]

Naah, Marvel had some queer rapists in the early 80's including some men who tried to rape Bruce Banner and a teenager named Skip who molested kid Peter Parker:



DC was (kinda) more progressive as it had a flaming gay superhero in the 80's, Extrano



But he got AIDS from a vampire so...

The first positive LGBT representation in Marvel came in 1987's Spider-Man: The Wedding issue, where real life gay fashion designer Willi Smith gifted Mary Jane the wedding dress he designed for her. Smith was actually commissioned to design the dress by Marvel and then they included him in the story as MJ's canon friend.

As a queer person who frequents these boards can I ask that things around here are less homophobic, by both the writers that are allies to the queer community and people against the queer community. Sometimes even allys can say something by accident that is harmful. And I think that is the case in this one. By equating rape and molestation with homosexuality like you did it further perpetuates the long standing myth that a rapist or molester with the same sex means your gay. NO! Rapists and molesters dont do it because of the sex. They do it because of the power. Rape/molestation is NOT about sexuality its about power and equating the two just muddies the waters for everyone.

[Slimybug]

Naah, Marvel had some queer rapists in the early 80's including some men who tried to rape Bruce Banner...

...Da fuq?

[Dermie]

As a queer person who frequents these boards can I ask that things around here are less homophobic, by both the writers that are allies to the queer community and people against the queer community. Sometimes even allys can say something by accident that is harmful. And I think that is the case in this one. By equating rape and molestation with homosexuality like you did it further perpetuates the long standing myth that a rapist or molester with the same sex means your gay. NO! Rapists and molesters dont do it because of the sex. They do it because of the power. Rape/molestation is NOT about sexuality its about power and equating the two just muddies the waters for everyone.

Everything you just said there is true.

However Confuzzled is correct that the YMCA attempted-rapists were portrayed in the story as being gay. That story has been heavily criticized for decades for being homophobic, for the very reasons that you cited--but the fact remains that the story did present those attempted-rapists as gay men.

Skip the molester is another matter entirely though, and should not be lumped in with LGBT characters just because his victim was male.

[dragon1440]

Everything you just said there is true.

However Confuzzled is correct that the YMCA attempted-rapists were portrayed in the story as being gay. That story has been heavily criticized for decades for being homophobic, for the very reasons that you cited--but the fact remains that the story did present those attempted-rapists as gay men.

Skip the molester is another matter entirely though, and should not be lumped in with LGBT characters just because his victim was male.

Yeah the Skip one is really what mad me sad the way it equated molestation with queerness. When it is about power not sex