Marvel can't seem to do right by black characters

[ed2962]

Put Sanford on X-Men or certain other books and like Greg Land all those complaints go away. Funny it's not hurting Bitter Root nor the various covers he has done at DC.

Oh, they'll complain but they'll buy it regardless.

Having said that, Bitter Root was great. More people need to know about it. Especially those of us who want to support minority characters and creators.

[ed2962]

It did.



That's actually a good point. A lot of the people who complain about certain books based on them supposedly not being visually appealing enough do seem to have slightly less problems enduring the same (or similar) kind of artwork if it's attached to a bigger-name character. If Chris Bachalo can still get work despite his art being rather hard to interpret at times . . .

I like Chris's art but I'm willing to admit that his storytelling has gotten more and more abstract over the years.

[JudicatorPrime]

Oh, they'll complain but they'll buy it regardless.

Having said that, Bitter Root was great. More people need to know about it. Especially those of us who want to support minority characters and creators.

Isn't Regina King planning to turn it into a movie?

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Isn't Regina King planning to turn it into a movie?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety...234970889/amp/

Yep

[ed2962]

Isn't Regina King planning to turn it into a movie?

Yes. And even if for some reason it stalls or doesn't come out, since it's creator owned Walker and Greene surely got paid for the option rights as opposed to the DC/Marvel accountants.

[9th.]

Oh, they'll complain but they'll buy it regardless.

Having said that, Bitter Root was great. More people need to know about it. Especially those of us who want to support minority characters and creators.

Been reading it since it came out, great series.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Regarding the thread topic, it's not a new problem for Marvel. Christopher Priest complained about this back in the early 2000s. He actually edited and wrote for Marvel and DC.

I imagined the quarantine/covid shutdown made it worse.

The Champions are a necessary compromise. Marvel can't make new ips work. The last truly new IP that really took off was the Runaways back in the 2000s.

Ironically the Champions would work better in the MCU. They'd be the main players over there. In the comics, they are just the understudies who never get the big break.

Is there a solution? Idk.

Maybe don't rely on Marvel for representation and go read some indies?.

To me, imprints like DC Zoom and Ink could help. You could revamp existing minority heroes for a younger demo who isn't gonna hold their past against them. Plus representation is something you need more when you're in high school/middle school. I like Kamala and Miles but they don't give me much to work with now that I'm 30.

[Hypestyle]

Marvel should do a modern version of the Reno Jones character and have him in some solo adventures.
From what I've read, the original comics version had him paired up with an ex-Confederate guy, which has a whole lot of loaded contexts to it.. not sure I'd be into that as an ongoing, but you might be able to get a mini -series out of it. But my main interest would be him as a solo cowboy for hire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaze_...stern%20heroes.

[Spiderfan001]

Regarding the thread topic, it's not a new problem for Marvel. Christopher Priest complained about this back in the early 2000s. He actually edited and wrote for Marvel and DC.

I imagined the quarantine/covid shutdown made it worse.

The Champions are a necessary compromise. Marvel can't make new ips work. The last truly new IP that really took off was the Runaways back in the 2000s.

Ironically the Champions would work better in the MCU. They'd be the main players over there. In the comics, they are just the understudies who never get the big break.

Is there a solution? Idk.

Maybe don't rely on Marvel for representation and go read some indies?.

To me, imprints like DC Zoom and Ink could help. You could revamp existing minority heroes for a younger demo who isn't gonna hold their past against them. Plus representation is something you need more when you're in high school/middle school. I like Kamala and Miles but they don't give me much to work with now that I'm 30.

This, Marvel is milking legacy dries because they can't make any new IP stick

Also Champions in Marvel is a cool idea IMO but I fear it won't happen

1)Young avengers seems to be the set up they are going for

2)Peter and Kamala are the same age, so very likely he'd take Miles place there if they did have it happen.They already made him a lot similar to Miles in the way he interacts w/ other heroes not to mention ganke and Ned.Miles and Peter same age is a no no, same way replacing Peter w/ Miles in champions would be IMO.

Still champions is barely sticking as, their recent book didn't sell well IIRC(tgf the book was not good)

[phonogram12]

Maybe don't rely on Marvel for representation and go read some indies?.

To me, imprints like DC Zoom and Ink could help. You could revamp existing minority heroes for a younger demo who isn't gonna hold their past against them. Plus representation is something you need more when you're in high school/middle school. I like Kamala and Miles but they don't give me much to work with now that I'm 30.

Honestly, I see where you're coming from, but I can't say I agree with it. It just let's the Big 2 off the hook. Plus, representation isn't just for those who need to see themselves in the characters that they read (I'm 45, btw). It's also for the majority (white straight people) to realize that they need to make room for the rest of us.

[dkrook]

Listening to you guys I'm thinking that maybe the concept of The Champions is good, but first the writing was definitely subpar, I'm leaning toward the idea some of you are pushing. Let Marvel try the digital books and hard cover. Why not hire young but skillful writers to do one shot graphic novels or digital books and skip floppy all together. Why can't Marvel put more effort into growing the larger more diverse market in a more meaningful way.

[Spiderfan001]

Honestly, I see where you're coming from, but I can't say I agree with it. It just let's the Big 2 off the hook. Plus, representation isn't just for those who need to see themselves in the characters that they read (I'm 45, btw). It's also for the majority (white straight people) to realize that they need to make room for the rest of us.

Not even make room, just stay in their lane.Representation isn't hurting them, they don't have to sacrifice anything.(except for characters being killed to promote legacy characters stuff ig)

Listening to you guys I'm thinking that maybe the concept of The Champions is good, but first the writing was definitely subpar, I'm leaning toward the idea some of you are pushing. Let Marvel try the digital books and hard cover. Why not hire young but skillful writers to do one shot graphic novels or digital books and skip floppy all together. Why can't Marvel put more effort into growing the larger more diverse market in a more meaningful way.

W/ all the one-shots they are doing I'd say they are trying, maybe they have the wrong approach

Also get better writers, all the top talent is straight white and one of the reasons is the prefer them to POC writers.

People want POC writers on POC books,etc. and I feel they need to hire better talent for that.It's def. there, some of the fan comics/fanfic by POC writers is phenomenal.They just need to find and recruit them asap

[skyvolt2000]

Maybe don't rely on Marvel for representation and go read some indies?.

Last time I checked most here are doing that.
Even with that being the case-that does NOT excuse Marvel or DC. Because the question will be asked to them why is it easy for everyone else but it's an issue with the Big Two?

Does any really want Marvel or DC to reply "our fanbases don't like POC in books or creating books especially the black ones?" I am sure Disney shareholders don't want to hear that nor does Warner Brothers.

Because they want to know why the companies with the biggest IPS are struggling with POC. Because they understand what MONEY is and want to know why Lumberjanes, Bitter Root, Excellence and so on can find audiences yet making a well done Black Panther or Storm or John Stewart book is an issue.
Why are writers who worked or still work at the big 2 can create diverse content like Backstagers or the woods or Papergirls-yet can't or struggle to do it with Luke Cage or Falcon.

What you choose not to do SOMEONE else will and we are seeing that with the growing number of diverse books elsewhere.

People want POC writers on POC books,etc. and I feel they need to hire better talent for that.It's def. there, some of the fan comics/fanfic by POC writers is phenomenal. They just need to find and recruit them asap

Issue 1-The good old boy network has stood in the way as many black writers and artists will tell you. Many of them got blocked by a former editor. A story Brandon Thomas and Brandon Eaton told once.

Issue 2-the few times they MIGHT do it at a comic con-it's in two places- LA or New York. So folks in Dallas are NOT going to travel to a con in New York for a 2 min viewing of their stuff.

Issue 3-PAY. As Ed Brubaker said once you could get way more folks if you offer better PAY. He got more for his CAMEO in CA Winter Solider than he did creating Winter Solider. We won't talk about the $500 Trevor Von Eden got. Bryan Hill is making more money writing HBO's Titans than those X-books.

The majority of POC have REAL jobs-David Walker & Khary Randolph are college professors. Ray Anthony Height can not work on his creator owned stuff because he was a real job at Lucasfilms (or whatever its called now).

[chamber-music]

The irony is that the general non-comic reading public likes Blade. However, the character doesn't move units in the comic shops.

People like Blade and Luke Cage but their solo comics have not been great. It's not like the white A-List superheroes who call sell comics regardless of the quality. Some characters need a really well written solo to shift the units that will get a run.

Blade works best for me when his dealing with the supernatural side of the Marvel universe.
Luke Cage hook is something of the African American everyman. He is a guy that was on speaking terms with the locals in his neighbourhood and was trying to get by and do good.

People want POC writers on POC books,etc. and I feel they need to hire better talent for that.It's def. there, some of the fan comics/fanfic by POC writers is phenomenal.They just need to find and recruit them asap

I agree.

I'm not really up on Marvel's recruitment process for talent but perhaps they need to open up their scope more. A lot of these companies say they was diversity but only go looking for talent in the same old tightly controlled avenues that they always do.

I've always liked that 2000AD had an open submissions process for writers and artists. If they can successfully bring in talent like that then there is no reason a multinational corporate subsidiary like Marvel couldn't manage the same.

[skyvolt2000]

Let Marvel try the digital books and hard cover. Why not hire young but skillful writers to do one shot graphic novels or digital books and skip floppy all together. Why can't Marvel put more effort into growing the larger more diverse market in a more meaningful way.

They are to a point.

They have done this with Miles, Ms Marvel and Squirrel Girl and lesser to a point with Shuri. Shuri has about 6 new books coming out. I want to say 2 are OGNs.

Finding these books in stores or seeing ANY promotion for them. Yes we have online and that is fine. However that can only get you so far.

The majority of folks-especially POC are a on site buyer. Meaning we see it, we BUY it right then and there. For most of us there is no Barnes & Nobles, Half Price Books or comic store near black areas. It's Target or Wal-Mart.

Now here is the issue-can't go into those stores and see those books on the shelf for sale. The ARCADE Book Series by former NFL player Rashad Jennings. A book line about a black boy. 5 books in all. I had to buy them all via Target App. Same with Raven, Beast Boy, Miles, Aqualad and Cassandra Cain OGNs.

The books can be MADE but ACCESS beyond Amazon and internet has to be available. It has to be in STORES especially stores that serve majority POC.