Marvel can't seem to do right by black characters

[John Venus]

I disagree. The Spider-marriage was a mistake. And I would say it’s the opposite of making him more layered. He’s become dull. These are timeless characters we’re talking about. It’s a shame when new readers are denied the fun aspects of a character because creators want to leave their marks.

FYI, the Spider-Marriage didn't make Peter or MJ less intriguing. In fact, some of the best Spider-Man stories happened in that era and some of the worst stories happened due to them wanting to dissolve the marriage (Clone Saga and OMD). He's dull now because he is now perpetually stuck in one place and they can only do 'shock' events stories with him.

[Spiderfan001]

The problem isn't the marriage. The problem is a lot of writers don't know what to do with Luke and Jessica. Why are we getting minis of Luke with no Jessica or baby.

If I were a writer, I'd be doing stories of Luke and Jessica starting their own P.I. firm or bodyguard services instead of just focusing on Luke alone. He has a wife and kids and they need to be a part of his life. Why Marvel is acting like Luke is some kind of solo hero is silly.

Agreed, Even this City on Fire was a solo.And Jessica's stories seem to revolve around the baby a lot more than Cage's which feels wrong since Luke's w/ the kid are good.

They need to develop them more, get them to the next stage.Their own firm idea as you suggest seems great.

FYI, the Spider-Marriage didn't make Peter or MJ less intriguing. In fact, some of the best Spider-Man stories happened in that era and some of the worst stories happened due to them wanting to dissolve the marriage (Clone Saga and OMD). He's dull now because he is now perpetually stuck in one place and they can only do 'shock' events stories with him.

Even now PeterMJ stuff is some of the best stuff we have.The marriage was amazing because they wrote it and well at that.As you said they can only do shock and/or replacement stories w/ him which I hope stop after Beyond.

[9th.]

The problem isn't the marriage. The problem is a lot of writers don't know what to do with Luke and Jessica. Why are we getting minis of Luke with no Jessica or baby.

If I were a writer, I'd be doing stories of Luke and Jessica starting their own P.I. firm or bodyguard services instead of just focusing on Luke alone. He has a wife and kids and they need to be a part of his life. Why Marvel is acting like Luke is some kind of solo hero is silly.

I liked that Netflix style defenders series they last had, I thought it worked pretty well but it only lasted like 12 issues I think.

[Huntsman Spider]

I liked that Netflix style defenders series they last had, I thought it worked pretty well but it only lasted like 12 issues I think.

10 issues, but yeah. Wouldn't mind a relaunch after Devil's Reign.

[Celgress]

Because social media, generally speaking, profits in the form of increased views, clicks, likes, shares, overall time spent/wasted, etc. on its platforms through amplifying anger, hate, and division, even if the consequences of this are fomenting violence, whether threatened or carried out, in the real world.

Indeed, my friend tried to stay positive and promote diversity in comic books/entertainment on Youtube and he failed miserably to the point he gave up. I'm not saying it is impossible (take the case of Casually Comics for example) but the successful negative channels far, far, FAR outnumber the positive ones.

[KurtW95]

Didio? Is that you?

Funny. Say what you want about Didio. I disagreed with a ton of what he did. But DC has gone downhill so bad since he’s been gone with the new people approving moronic and short-sighted ideas in this year alone.

FYI, the Spider-Marriage didn't make Peter or MJ less intriguing. In fact, some of the best Spider-Man stories happened in that era and some of the worst stories happened due to them wanting to dissolve the marriage (Clone Saga and OMD). He's dull now because he is now perpetually stuck in one place and they can only do 'shock' events stories with him.

That’s not why. He’s dull now because the most of the writers who’ve had him since write him as a loser who tells bad jokes refused to go back to basics at the Daily Bugle and shoehorning him into teams and splitting his villains with another Spider-Man who worked better in his own universe. And giving an alternate Gwen Stacy, who doesn’t act like Gwen in the slightest, spider powers, which kind of blocks the real Gwen Stacy from returning. And yes. I’m in favor of reviving 616 Gwen Stacy and having her be the prime love interest again. As people who know me on these forums already know. But even if that were to happen, I would opposed them getting married and having children in 616. These characters are timeless and pressing fast forward on their lives is not an option when you want to keep their essence intact so people in the future can enjoy the characters and their stories. Talented writers who aren’t lazy don’t have a problem with telling stories that preserve the character’s essence and make it stronger rather than the easy option of changing or aging the character.

[Spiderfan001]

That’s not why. He’s dull now because the most of the writers who’ve had him since write him as a loser who tells bad jokes refused to go back to basics at the Daily Bugle and shoehorning him into teams and splitting his villains with another Spider-Man who worked better in his own universe. And giving an alternate Gwen Stacy, who doesn’t act like Gwen in the slightest, spider powers, which kind of blocks the real Gwen Stacy from returning. And yes. I’m in favor of reviving 616 Gwen Stacy and having her be the prime love interest again. As people who know me on these forums already know. But even if that were to happen, I would opposed them getting married and having children in 616. These characters are timeless and pressing fast forward on their lives is not an option when you want to keep their essence intact so people in the future can enjoy the characters and their stories. Talented writers who aren’t lazy don’t have a problem with telling stories that preserve the character’s essence and make it stronger rather than the easy option of changing or aging the character.

This, funny how so many readers get it yet Marvel doesn't.Spider-man sucked for so long because in BND era they had writers who used him as a doormat, Slott even stated he made Peter suffer as much as he could.It's such a fundamental misunderstanding of the character.Just making him a loser who suffers and tells bad jokes isn't what Spider-man is.These writers humiliated him in his own comic for more than a decade for "muh funny" when it's really insulting the main character to prop up others in the book people care about far less.Slott even does this in small ways in his current FF.

All we need is a writer who respects him, Spencer did and his Peter was great.Heck his MJ and Black Cat were also great.

I don't want 616 Gwen back but I do agree about Miles and Gwen working better in their own universes and Miles's growth being stunted because of his rogue's gallery or lack thereof.

I want Spidey w/ MJ regardless of marriage or not but I'm even fine w/ single Spidey if he's well written and competent(which he is, all his best stories show this.).BND making Spidey single was a small problem in comparison to his terrible treatment by his won writers.

[Digifiend]

10 issues, but yeah. Wouldn't mind a relaunch after Devil's Reign.

The Defenders book was only cancelled because of Superman. Bendis quit Marvel to take over the Man of Steel, and as a result all of his four books came to an end. Defenders was cancelled, Miles Morales went on hiatus until they could find a new writer (it was about six months later that Ahmed's run started), and Iron Man and Jessica Jones both relaunched with new writers (Dan Slott and Kelly Thompson respectively).

If they did revive it now, it would probably be given a different name (branded as an Avengers title, perhaps - the core characters were also in Bendis's Avengers teams), because there was recently a more traditional Defenders title.

[skyvolt2000]

Indeed, my friend tried to stay positive and promote diversity in comic books/entertainment on Youtube and he failed miserably to the point he gave up. I'm not saying it is impossible (take the case of Casually Comics for example) but the successful negative channels far, far, FAR outnumber the positive ones.

Because the positive ones do not feature buzz word or buzz magnet material.

A review of say Black Panther by a positive site-does NOT veer into throwing fits about why are there black folks in the book or writers. It tries to give you good and bad on the actual content.

The positive ones do not STOP at saying well Mosaic failed and that proves no one wants to read about black folks. They are going to try to give you more like some stores NOT selling the book for legit or racist reasons. A book that might do better as a trade as many of these books have shown to do.

The positive ones can suggest book BEYOND Marvel and DC.

The positive ones tend to be folks who actually have real JOBS-so they can't surf social media to look for rage.

Negative ones-they see POC and that is all they need for rage clicks. Be it in the books, creators or folks in charge. As much crying about DC not having a direction (or DC not pandering to a certain demographic)-DC had a choice with that 5G that they claimed Dan never started.

Folks forget DC still has some company sale issues that have to be done. So why try to start anything new when you don't know who will be in charge finally? Along with still having to pay all those folks for those 5G projects. They are trending water until things settle.

This, funny how so many readers get it yet Marvel doesn't.

Marvel can't get it because Spider-Man is a franchise that low sales can't really hurt compared to say Black Panther. Especially with all those variants. They are still going by the idea of throw certain folks on covers or books and that is it.

Look at the current X-Men book. They have done more variants WITHOUT Synch & Sunfire. Did they NOT have a variant of the team but with Logan and Storm? Justice League just did one with a TON of folks on the cover like Cyborg and he was NOT in the book.

If all they are looking at is sales-they have ZERO reason to change. Unless they don't care like we saw with Black Panther for 5 years. They gave those books away for FREE and sales did not improve for the final 6-7 last issues.

[ed2962]

The problem isn't the marriage. The problem is a lot of writers don't know what to do with Luke and Jessica. Why are we getting minis of Luke with no Jessica or baby.

If I were a writer, I'd be doing stories of Luke and Jessica starting their own P.I. firm or bodyguard services instead of just focusing on Luke alone. He has a wife and kids and they need to be a part of his life. Why Marvel is acting like Luke is some kind of solo hero is silly.

I agree. This is what I would pitch if I was a contract writer at Marvel. The problem is that current Marvel and DC editors think the target audience doesn't want too many married superheroes for some reason. Despite the fact it's actually worked fine for some heroes.

[Marvell2100]

I agree. This is what I would pitch if I was a contract writer at Marvel. The problem is that current Marvel and DC editors think the target audience doesn't want too many married superheroes for some reason. Despite the fact it's actually worked fine for some heroes.

Probably because most writers think marriage in comics is boring. They can't introduce a new LI every 6 months, they can't have the couple arguing without them breaking up and somebody has to stay home just because.

[Huntsman Spider]

Probably because most writers think marriage in comics is boring. They can't introduce a new LI every 6 months, they can't have the couple arguing without them breaking up and somebody has to stay home just because.

Given the predominant demographic of superhero comics writers . . . maybe that says something more about how they regard and treat marriage, their own or generally speaking, in reality.

[ed2962]

Given the predominant demographic of superhero comics writers . . . maybe that says something more about how they regard and treat marriage, their own or generally speaking, in reality.

That's just it though...most of the creators are or have been married and have kids ( and many have adult children). So it's not like they don't know about balancing work vs family. I think it's more about milking old formulas or undoing progressions in characters for the sake of nostalgia.

[Huntsman Spider]

That's just it though...most of the creators are or have been married and have kids ( and many have adult children). So it's not like they don't know about balancing work vs family. I think it's more about milking old formulas or undoing progressions in characters for the sake of nostalgia.

That also makes sense. Nostalgia for when they themselves were young and single and fancy-free, as people used to say back in the day? And yes, the issue of milking old formulas to death out of an unwillingness to do and/or try new things and move forward . . . why we've been getting reboots, remakes, and years/decades-belated sequels out of franchises we enjoyed in our own younger days, come to think of it. They'd rather go with what they think is a sure thing with a guaranteed fandom than actually risk anything doing something new and different, although it's not like it helps that (almost) every time that gets tried, it gets punished by people whose only coherent answer for why is, "I wanted new and different, but not that kind of new and different!"

[Celgress]

Given the predominant demographic of superhero comics writers . . . maybe that says something more about how they regard and treat marriage, their own or generally speaking, in reality.

A valid point. *sigh*