Marvel can't seem to do right by black characters

[Spiderfan001]

Let's not shift the goal posts please.

I'm not, I thought it was clear MCU implied all the massive advantages those projects got.

You tell me. You're the one who called it a failure.

I didn't, ed2962 did

Inhumans didn't do great, Eternals so far has been not a flop, but underwhelming.

[/quote]I don't know what circles you run in, but Ant-Man and Wasp is nowhere near considered to be the worst MCU movie. Are you sure you aren't confusing it with Age of Ultron or Thor:The Dark World?[quote]

TDW is worse but AOU is considered better than AMaTW usually

Yeah, I'd do a bit of research on that. There is a reason there was an entire controversy surrounding Captain Marvel and rotten tomatoes.

Same w/ Eternals, except it's not just critics.So excuses excuses...
It's still mid af w/ Brie's acting in it being terrible.Shame since she has a lot of good performances

[Agent Z]

I'm not, I thought it was clear MCU implied all the massive advantages those projects got.

Inhumans was not only billed as an MCU show, it was advertised as the superhero equivalent to Game of Thrones (they even got one of the actors from that show to play Maximus). Not to mention it largely happened because of Ike Perlmutter. Kevin Feige had to jump through all kinds of hoops to get Captain Marvel and Black Panther made. Inhumans had every advantage possible and still failed.

The MCU itself is not an automatic ticket to success.

TDW is worse but AOU is considered better than AMaTW usually

No, it very much is not.

Same w/ Eternals, except it's not just critics.So excuses excuses...
It's still mid af w/ Brie's acting in it being terrible.Shame since she has a lot of good performances

People have been trying to rewrite history with Captain Marvel since that film came out. It was not a failure by any definition.

[Spiderfan001]

Listen I don't have the will or want to continue this Agent Z, let's just agree to disagree

[Agent Z]

You know what, let's just agree to diagree. I think we've been off topic too long.

[Huntsman Spider]

There was an article written and published in The New York Times earlier this year talking about an expose revealing that Hollywood studios and executives ultimately cost themselves billions of dollars in annual profits because they didn't want to go to the trouble of greenlighting, promoting, and/or prioritizing black-led films, even after Black Panther's amazingly strong showing in the box office, whether out of an outdated belief that black-led films wouldn't sell well internationally or other such biases against black-led films. Given that sad reality, it's probable that similar biases in the mainstream comics industry may be animating Marvel's seeming inability to do justice by its black characters, that people with actual influence and power in that industry, not only elements of the fandom and/or readership, are just as resistant to the idea of greenlighting, promoting, and/or prioritizing black-led titles as Hollywood execs have been when it comes to black-led films. That's really where it's at, I think, that at least some of the people who have actual power and influence in comics as an industry (still) aren't convinced that books with non-"standard issue" lead heroes are worthwhile and can be successful. As a result of this, there's a reluctance to fully commit to publishing and promoting such books, especially when they tackle uncomfortable topics relating to societal power dynamics, one such example (possibly) being Luke Cage: City of Fire getting canceled right before it was supposed to be released.

[KurtW95]

I think it’s also a giant blunder that these producers don’t bother with black characters mostly and just cast black actors as white characters all the time to satisfy their representation. Imagine DC doing an Icon movie instead of black Clark Kent from Abrams and Coates.

[Huntsman Spider]

I think it’s also a giant blunder that these producers don’t bother with black characters mostly and just cast black actors as white characters all the time to satisfy their representation. Imagine DC doing an Icon movie instead of black Clark Kent from Abrams and Coates.

Fair point. Legacy characters can't be doing all the work of greater representation. That said, no comics creator worth their salt wants to effectively give away their best original ideas to either or both of a pair of big corporations that don't bother adequately compensating their talent for their work, even when using that work in movies and TV shows that reach millions of eyeballs and rake in billions of dollars in profits for those corporations. That's a big part of the problem right there.

[dkrook]

There was an article written and published in The New York Times earlier this year talking about an expose revealing that Hollywood studios and executives ultimately cost themselves billions of dollars in annual profits because they didn't want to go to the trouble of greenlighting, promoting, and/or prioritizing black-led films, even after Black Panther's amazingly strong showing in the box office, whether out of an outdated belief that black-led films wouldn't sell well internationally or other such biases against black-led films. Given that sad reality, it's probable that similar biases in the mainstream comics industry may be animating Marvel's seeming inability to do justice by its black characters, that people with actual influence and power in that industry, not only elements of the fandom and/or readership, are just as resistant to the idea of greenlighting, promoting, and/or prioritizing black-led titles as Hollywood execs have been when it comes to black-led films. That's really where it's at, I think, that at least some of the people who have actual power and influence in comics as an industry (still) aren't convinced that books with non-"standard issue" lead heroes are worthwhile and can be successful. As a result of this, there's a reluctance to fully commit to publishing and promoting such books, especially when they tackle uncomfortable topics relating to societal power dynamics, one such example (possibly) being Luke Cage: City of Fire getting canceled right before it was supposed to be released.

Crazy how racist thinking is so all encompassing for so many that they will burn away millions to support and sustain it. God you gotta laugh at how worthless so many folk are.

[Huntsman Spider]

Crazy how racist thinking is so all encompassing for so many that they will burn away millions to support and sustain it. God you gotta laugh at how worthless so many folk are.

Sadly, yeah. It's either laugh at how absurd it all is, or cry from the sheer unfairness and injustice of it all.

[skyvolt2000]

I think it’s also a giant blunder that these producers don’t bother with black characters mostly and just cast black actors as white characters all the time to satisfy their representation. Imagine DC doing an Icon movie instead of black Clark Kent from Abrams and Coates.

For the record-Warner Brothers wanted a Static Shock series starring a WHITE Static.

And said it in the first meeting about the show with Milestone.


Also Icon could have been white if a Slave owner found him first instead of a slave. At least OGN version was like that.

That said, no comics creator worth their salt wants to effectively give away their best original ideas to either

This is what folks don't get when they scream create new characters.
That is why folks say use who you already have.

DC for example-if they wanted a black teen hero. Here is who they already had.

Kevin Hudman (from Tim Drake's Robin run) was there.
The still MIA Keith Roberts (Perry White's son) from Superman.
Leon Richards (Tattoo Man's son)
Ben Turner Jr (Bronze Tiger's nephew)
Ben Rubel (Supergirl's ex)
Jermhal Irons (Steel's MIA nephew)
Alvin Tanner (Black Lightning's nephew)
Billy Barnes (Trevor Barnes's nephew from Wonder Woman)
Roland (Impulse series)

Hudman could have been Duke Thomas. Since he has a link to Batman.

And if they were trying to heat up back issue sales-Alvin, Billy & Ben Jr. would do that.

[Huntsman Spider]

For the record-Warner Brothers wanted a Static Shock series starring a WHITE Static.

And said it in the first meeting about the show with Milestone.


Also Icon could have been white if a Slave owner found him first instead of a slave. At least OGN version was like that.




This is what folks don't get when they scream create new characters.
That is why folks say use who you already have.

DC for example-if they wanted a black teen hero. Here is who they already had.

Kevin Hudman (from Tim Drake's Robin run) was there.
The still MIA Keith Roberts (Perry White's son) from Superman.
Leon Richards (Tattoo Man's son)
Ben Turner Jr (Bronze Tiger's nephew)
Ben Rubel (Supergirl's ex)
Jermhal Irons (Steel's MIA nephew)
Alvin Tanner (Black Lightning's nephew)
Billy Barnes (Trevor Barnes's nephew from Wonder Woman)
Roland (Impulse series)

Hudman could have been Duke Thomas. Since he has a link to Batman.

And if they were trying to heat up back issue sales-Alvin, Billy & Ben Jr. would do that.

Wow, those are a lot of missed, overlooked, or ignored opportunities there.

[dkrook]

Wow, those are a lot of missed, overlooked, or ignored opportunities there.

This train of thought had me wondering what a well written "The Crew" book could have been like now. With better art. I image a book that combines a real ass black Captain America with actual hard-core soldier skills, low tech Iron Man, and Black Panther with urban flare. When I see so many repetitive and stupid ideas being greenlit my mind is just blown, but I also understand that white men for all their complaining about diversity, oddly are still the ones writing a majority of everything and making all the decisions. Love this medium, but much like the country its becoming unbearable with all lack of racial equity, and gaslighting of attempts to correct it.

[skyvolt2000]

This train of thought had me wondering what a well written "The Crew" book could have been like now. With better art. I image a book that combines a real ass black Captain America with actual hard-core soldier skills, low tech Iron Man, and Black Panther with urban flare. When I see so many repetitive and stupid ideas being greenlit my mind is just blown, but I also understand that white men for all their complaining about diversity, oddly are still the ones writing a majority of everything and making all the decisions. Love this medium, but much like the country its becoming unbearable with all lack of racial equity, and gaslighting of attempts to correct it.

Part of the issue is what type of pitches are you as the editor are willing to listen to.

What story do you want told? Who do you want used?

Part of the issue is a lot of these stories are the types to make someone feel good, ABC After school special, pander to certain demos and preaching wasters.
Few are willing to step beyond that box of pandering. This is fiction where anything and EVERYTHING is fair game.
I can think of ways to make a social statement without actually saying it-Dwayne McDuffie excelled at that.

Example-
Priest in Batman The Hill (a one shot that was MEANT to be a 5 part mini from 2000). So RARE most comic book stores did not know about it and I know some who would have ordered based on the fact Priest wrote it.

Black folks PUNKED Batman. Telling him to his face they were not scared of him because he never bothers to visit the black part of Gotham.

Now what would happen if say AIM set up shop in the hood? Got recruits? Especially gang members that do not CARE if they die?

Lady Slay can't open a charter school to "recruit" or build up an army that will infiltrate? You would be amazed at what famous folks own or have stock in charter schools. That are not publicly known like Lebron. I can think of 4-one is a WELL KNOWN athlete with a very FAMOUS wife. Whose schools are in black areas.

[Huntsman Spider]

This train of thought had me wondering what a well written "The Crew" book could have been like now. With better art. I image a book that combines a real ass black Captain America with actual hard-core soldier skills, low tech Iron Man, and Black Panther with urban flare. When I see so many repetitive and stupid ideas being greenlit my mind is just blown, but I also understand that white men for all their complaining about diversity, oddly are still the ones writing a majority of everything and making all the decisions. Love this medium, but much like the country its becoming unbearable with all lack of racial equity, and gaslighting of attempts to correct it.

Hmm, sounds like it would be a good time for Josiah X, Kasper Cole, and War Machine to join back up for a mission or something.

Part of the issue is what type of pitches are you as the editor are willing to listen to.

What story do you want told? Who do you want used?

Part of the issue is a lot of these stories are the types to make someone feel good, ABC After school special, pander to certain demos and preaching wasters.
Few are willing to step beyond that box of pandering. This is fiction where anything and EVERYTHING is fair game.
I can think of ways to make a social statement without actually saying it-Dwayne McDuffie excelled at that.

Example-
Priest in Batman The Hill (a one shot that was MEANT to be a 5 part mini from 2000). So RARE most comic book stores did not know about it and I know some who would have ordered based on the fact Priest wrote it.

Black folks PUNKED Batman. Telling him to his face they were not scared of him because he never bothers to visit the black part of Gotham.

Now what would happen if say AIM set up shop in the hood? Got recruits? Especially gang members that do not CARE if they die?

Lady Slay can't open a charter school to "recruit" or build up an army that will infiltrate? You would be amazed at what famous folks own or have stock in charter schools. That are not publicly known like Lebron. I can think of 4-one is a WELL KNOWN athlete with a very FAMOUS wife. Whose schools are in black areas.

Hmm, sounds like a great premise to run with, although come to think of it, it could be somewhat reminiscent of that one arc of Ms. Marvel where HYDRA tried to take over Jersey City by gentrification, posing as a real-estate developer by the name of Hope Yards Development and Relocation Association.

[chamber-music]

Crazy how racist thinking is so all encompassing for so many that they will burn away millions to support and sustain it. God you gotta laugh at how worthless so many folk are.

The music industry and professional sports were the same for decades. They would of rather missed out on signing and promoting black talent than change the status quo. Sadly racism is systemic in certain places and changing the mindset of people in certain industry's can be a long slow hard slog.