Marvel can't seem to do right by black characters

[Username taken]

Ok THIS. I was watching a youtube video about the new Beyond Spider-Man comics, and was reading all these comments talking bout,"I'm so glad Ben is taking up the mantle and not Miles [insert nonsense about forced diversity]." Like WHAT?!? What happened to all the people only wanting the original, Peter Parker, in the mantle? The arguments against legacy characters seem to conveniently only pop up when the legacy character doesn't look like the original.

It mostly comes up when the character is a POC or female or both. Even when it’s clearly temporary (like Sam Wilson as Captain America or Jane Foster as Thor).

Bucky was Captain America and was largely accepted because he was white…never mind that was previously a brain washed assassin that had murdered a lot of people. Falcon became Captain America and the usual crowd totally railed against it. Or worse still look at Riri Williams who was Iron Heart in the books and not Iron Man, folks are still making videos about Riri to this day, conveniently ignoring the fact that Victor Von Doom was parading himself as Iron Man. It was so bad with Riri that there was even a petition against her D+ series a while back.

Parts of the comic book audience only accept replacements when they’re white, straight and male. It’s pretty awful but it is what it is.

[Celgress]

What video lol? All the comments(on every platform from twitter to insta to youtube) have been overwhelmingly "Why isn't Miles doing this"(this and "stop w/ the replacements")....

This is the consensus (for lack of a better term) I've seen as well.

[9th.]

It mostly comes up when the character is a POC or female or both. Even when it’s clearly temporary (like Sam Wilson as Captain America or Jane Foster as Thor).

Bucky was Captain America and was largely accepted because he was white…never mind that was previously a brain washed assassin that had murdered a lot of people. Falcon became Captain America and the usual crowd totally railed against it. Or worse still look at Riri Williams who was Iron Heart in the books and not Iron Man, folks are still making videos about Riri to this day, conveniently ignoring the fact that Victor Von Doom was parading himself as Iron Man. It was so bad with Riri that there was even a petition against her D+ series a while back.

Parts of the comic book audience only accept replacements when they’re white, straight and male. It’s pretty awful but it is what it is.

This still makes me angry to this day

[CosmiComic]

It mostly comes up when the character is a POC or female or both. Even when it’s clearly temporary (like Sam Wilson as Captain America or Jane Foster as Thor).

Bucky was Captain America and was largely accepted because he was white…never mind that was previously a brain washed assassin that had murdered a lot of people. Falcon became Captain America and the usual crowd totally railed against it. Or worse still look at Riri Williams who was Iron Heart in the books and not Iron Man, folks are still making videos about Riri to this day, conveniently ignoring the fact that Victor Von Doom was parading himself as Iron Man. It was so bad with Riri that there was even a petition against her D+ series a while back.

Parts of the comic book audience only accept replacements when they’re white, straight and male. It’s pretty awful but it is what it is.

That's why I'm done with this whole 'legacies ruin the originals/make 'original' PoC heroes' argument. It's just whining at this point, even from people who want more diversity. Who cares if Miles has Peter's powers (with extra)? Or Riri is based on Tony? What matters is actual PoC heroes being present, and ideally neither stereotypical nor whitewashed.

[skyvolt2000]

Parts of the comic book audience only accept replacements when they’re white, straight and male. It’s pretty awful but it is what it is.

Or when it's certain writers and certain book.

JSA & Johns says HI.

Nobody has an issue with Michael Holt-and his first appearance doesn't come cheap.
Hal and Crispus took over as Spectre to no complaints.
Crimson Avenger got replaced by a black woman.
Wildcat has his son and Yolanda as his legacies.

Most of that roster are replacement or legacies.

What video lol? All the comments(on every platform from twitter to insta to youtube) have been overwhelmingly "Why isn't Miles doing this"(this and "stop w/ the replacements")....

Keep digging I bet they are there although I suspect folks just accept Into the Spiderverse with Miles.

Who cares if Miles has Peter's powers (with extra)?

The folks who are not happy with him existing.

What has he done that others have not? An Oscar wining movie and video game and a ton of trades and merchandise. Don't think for one second Storm or Vixen or other fanbases are happy with that. Because they can't get those shots.

Don't think they are happy while seeing Nightmare Blog and upcoming Buckethead comic starring black folks can get made. While excuses are made for long established black folks to not sniff anything.

[ed2962]

Or when it's certain writers and certain book.

JSA & Johns says HI.

Nobody has an issue with Michael Holt-and his first appearance doesn't come cheap.
Hal and Crispus took over as Spectre to no complaints.
Crimson Avenger got replaced by a black woman.
Wildcat has his son and Yolanda as his legacies.

Most of that roster are replacement or legacies.




Keep digging I bet they are there although I suspect folks just accept Into the Spiderverse with Miles.




The folks who are not happy with him existing.

What has he done that others have not? An Oscar wining movie and video game and a ton of trades and merchandise. Don't think for one second Storm or Vixen or other fanbases are happy with that. Because they can't get those shots.

Don't think they are happy while seeing Nightmare Blog and upcoming Buckethead comic starring black folks can get made. While excuses are made for long established black folks to not sniff anything.

Well, you couldn't monetize nerd outrage culture then. It's like when Gerry Conway brought up that back in the 70's when they were bringing in more women and minority superheroes, they got almost no push back. But these days when supposedly society is a little more progressed, some fans are freaking out over diverse characters. Thing is...a person can make a living being fake mad at pop culture.

[Username taken]

Well, you couldn't monetize nerd outrage culture then. It's like when Gerry Conway brought up that back in the 70's when they were bringing in more women and minority superheroes, they got almost no push back. But these days when supposedly society is a little more progressed, some fans are freaking out over diverse characters. Thing is...a person can make a living being fake mad at pop culture.

Quoted for truth.

[9th.]

Well, you couldn't monetize nerd outrage culture then. It's like when Gerry Conway brought up that back in the 70's when they were bringing in more women and minority superheroes, they got almost no push back. But these days when supposedly society is a little more progressed, some fans are freaking out over diverse characters. Thing is...a person can make a living being fake mad at pop culture.

I really hate that there's a market for that, I hate all that reactionary bs. It gets us nowhere and only makes comicbook fans look super ignorant.

[Agent Z]

Well, you couldn't monetize nerd outrage culture then. It's like when Gerry Conway brought up that back in the 70's when they were bringing in more women and minority superheroes, they got almost no push back. But these days when supposedly society is a little more progressed, some fans are freaking out over diverse characters. Thing is...a person can make a living being fake mad at pop culture.

It also depends on if the property is something nerds were really invested in. Skyvolt mentioned Crimson Avenger, but how many people know or care about that character, even among the small audience that is comic fans? I recall how the people who whine about "blackwashing" had nothing to say about Ghost, a character who is a white man in the comics, being portrayed by a black woman in Ant-Man and Wasp.

I really hate that there's a market for that, I hate all that reactionary bs. It gets us nowhere and only makes comicbook fans look super ignorant.

From what I hear, it's not a particularly strong market anyway.

[Tofali]

It also depends on if the property is something nerds were really invested in. Skyvolt mentioned Crimson Avenger, but how many people know or care about that character, even among the small audience that is comic fans? I recall how the people who whine about "blackwashing" had nothing to say about Ghost, a character who is a white man in the comics, being portrayed by a black woman in Ant-Man and Wasp.

They can't be that stupid, can they? Like what would they say after Marvel gave Stark the feat of having created Ultron?

[ed2962]

I really hate that there's a market for that, I hate all that reactionary bs. It gets us nowhere and only makes comicbook fans look super ignorant.

It's not just comic book fans. Supposedly "serious" news anchors have got in on the act. Sometimes you can tell by the looks on their faces that they'd much rather be talking about what's going on in Congress, but because of "THE CULTURE WARS"TM, the producers have them comment on "gay" Capt America and Superman or Baby Elmo.

[ed2962]

It also depends on if the property is something nerds were really invested in. Skyvolt mentioned Crimson Avenger, but how many people know or care about that character, even among the small audience that is comic fans? I recall how the people who whine about "blackwashing" had nothing to say about Ghost, a character who is a white man in the comics, being portrayed by a black woman in Ant-Man and Wasp.

This is a fair point. I was a little surprised that a bigger deal wasn't made out of Domino being black in the Deadpool sequel.

[Spiderfan001]

Keep digging I bet they are there although I suspect folks just accept Into the Spiderverse with Miles.

When the trailer came out I went through all the comments after 3-5 hours or the next day(been a while) w/ same results.People are literally asking for Miles to be used instead of this in one of the majority opinions.It's just not there, certainly not in an extent that can be noticed.

I agree w/ a lot of your overall points but this is a massive reach at best but most likely making up/ greatly exaggerating stuff to further your point.Which there's no need too since there's so much stuff that backs your point in the first place.

(Not saying you're lying, maybe you came across 1-2 comments that said that but w/ the amount of people literally asking for Miles when it's not even related to him this isn't true.)

This is a fair point. I was a little surprised that a bigger deal wasn't made out of Domino being black in the Deadpool sequel.

Same, although she was well-executed which is always a big plus.

[Spiderfan001]

Well, you couldn't monetize nerd outrage culture then. It's like when Gerry Conway brought up that back in the 70's when they were bringing in more women and minority superheroes, they got almost no push back. But these days when supposedly society is a little more progressed, some fans are freaking out over diverse characters. Thing is...a person can make a living being fake mad at pop culture.

It's not a strong market, a very small "fanbase" who is looked down by all creators and other fans.

I also think it has to do w/ the way it's done, I wasn't there in the 70's so I could be dead wrong but were these characters promoted as diverse or were they just diverse characters that existed.That and POC/LGBTQ+ characters are now not being added but replacing fan favorite's in comics.It's not their inclusion that bothered them, but the fact that older characters are being shoved to make room for these characters.(Not saying it's right or wrong, just why people react heavily now).

I also do prefer OC's regardless of race and gender. etc. We don't need a Spider-man/Batman of every ethnicity, I'd much rather have a Black Panther/Luke Cage type of character instead.But the former is easier to sell, that's why legacy is used more.Their comics quality aren't good enough to sell an OC so they use the fanbase of established characters which can be annoying.Spider-verse characters all being in 616 is a horrible thing(except Miles rn, his earth isn't around).

That's why Falcon is a peak legacy character, he was a character before being a legacy and fits every other thing as well.Characters(any race, gender, etc.) created to be legacy characters can be annoying because how often it happens

It also depends on if the property is something nerds were really invested in. Skyvolt mentioned Crimson Avenger, but how many people know or care about that character, even among the small audience that is comic fans? I recall how the people who whine about "blackwashing" had nothing to say about Ghost, a character who is a white man in the comics, being portrayed by a black woman in Ant-Man and Wasp.

Bigger characters have larger fanbases, thus a bigger reaction.

[dkrook]

It also depends on if the property is something nerds were really invested in. Skyvolt mentioned Crimson Avenger, but how many people know or care about that character, even among the small audience that is comic fans? I recall how the people who whine about "blackwashing" had nothing to say about Ghost, a character who is a white man in the comics, being portrayed by a black woman in Ant-Man and Wasp.



From what I hear, it's not a particularly strong market anyway.

Yeah, but unfortunately social media allows for this small paranoid market to have such an elevated voice in this current culture.