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  1. #106
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    So they should market comics more digitally then, if that's where the market for this is.Why would Marvel shoot themselves in the foot
    Also all the shop owners I've know enough to talk on a first name basis(5) only care about what sells, but I don't mean to say what you're saying is wrong.Just what I've seen, then again they are also POC's(most of them) so I guess that's why.
    There was a big push towards digital but there was an absolute massive push back against it from brick and mortar retailers.

    Brian Hibbs (a massive retailer) flat out refused to carry Marvel titles because they included free digital codes for their $3.99 books.

    Believe me, the direct market will really kick against a full on digital push because it could put hundreds or even thousands of stores out of business.

    But from both of you I have to ask, is the problem that people can't get these books(from DM) or that they won't buy them(as skyvolt stated)? Because they are polar opposite problems and both seem plausible.Former means theirs hope while later means many readers just won't read POC characters...
    Skyvolt's point is that minority led titles should be handled more carefully. Although I will say that Greg Land was actually meant to sell Mighty Avengers because Tom Brevoort (Editor of the Avengers books at the time) always said that Greg Land books always sold.....even when folks always complained about the books. Greg Land could sell on X-titles because the X-men are already established in the market so even with "hack" artist, it still sold very, very well.

    And another point that they made that's tied to my own is that there's constant pushback against POC characters. Duke Thomas was never officially Robin but the mere hint of a black Robin drove some people to a rage.

    For me, the best way to circumvent all this is to concentrate on channels outside the direct market because it's far too restrictive but expect significant retailer push back if Marvel does this. All this being said, Marvel has pretty much broken away from Diamond in the United States which for me is a step in the right direction. Outside of minority issues, distribution is one of the greatest problems with the industry today.
    Last edited by Username taken; 11-18-2021 at 09:21 AM.

  2. #107
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Bruuuuuh! You know that wouldn't have flown if they had just one black person really peep that for 3 seconds, and you avoid the optics of such a trash plot device.
    I think it was deliberate and they got the reaction that they wanted. From those who saw how disgusting that was, and from those who relish that sort of imagery and messaging. None of this happens by coincidence or mistake. Marvel knew exactly what it was doing.

    Edit: The more I think about it, the more I think Kevin Grevioux's origin story for Blue Marvel should have started with that image. Adam Brashear sitting back, forcibly retired by Presidential Order decades ago, and seeing the distinguished Dr. Bill Foster publicly killed by a clone of their Aryan god and trussed up as if he'd just been lynched.

    And then Anti-Man, as if summoned by Adam's rage, manifests and trashes the Avengers in real-time.

    When Iron Man finally shows up on Adam's doorstep asking for his help, Adam closes the door in his face. "Anti-Man is no threat to me. He's here for you. Good luck with that."
    Last edited by JudicatorPrime; 11-18-2021 at 12:46 PM.

  3. #108
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Didn't they bury Bill Foster in chains like a runaway slave that they'd lynched and put on display?
    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Yep, it was so distasteful…
    Extremely. Disgusting, even.

    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Bruuuuuh! You know that wouldn't have flown if they had just one black person really peep that for 3 seconds, and you avoid the optics of such a trash plot device.
    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    I think it was deliberate and they got the reaction that they wanted. From those who saw how disgusting that was, and from those who relish that sort of imagery and messaging. None of this happens by coincidence or mistake. Marvel knew exactly what it was doing.

    Edit: The more I think about it, the more I think Kevin Grevioux's origin story for Blue Marvel should have started with that image. Adam Brashear sitting back, forcibly retired by Presidential Order decades ago, and seeing the distinguished Dr. Bill Foster publicly killed by a clone of their Aryan god and trussed up as if he'd just been lynched.

    And then Anti-Man, as if summoned by Adam's rage, manifests and trashes the Avengers in real-time.

    When Iron Man finally shows up on Adam's doorstep asking for his help, Adam closes the door in his face. "Anti-Man is no threat to me. He's here for you. Good luck with that."
    That would have been beautiful karma.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  4. #109
    Incredible Member LukeCagefan's Avatar
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    I couldn't believe how much I actually like Luke Cage pre Bendis having read the old school Power Man stuff. I wish he never had a kid or got married. Claire, Harmony Young and Jenifer Walters I'll take over Jessica Jones any day.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Didn't they bury Bill Foster in chains like a runaway slave that they'd lynched and put on display?
    Hold on....what? I must've blacked out on that part because I don't remember that at all.
    Reading List (Super behind but reading them nonetheless):
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  6. #111
    Incredible Member XenobladerX's Avatar
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    Civil War #4

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by LukeCagefan View Post
    I couldn't believe how much I actually like Luke Cage pre Bendis having read the old school Power Man stuff. I wish he never had a kid or got married. Claire, Harmony Young and Jenifer Walters I'll take over Jessica Jones any day.
    I thought I was the only one, Bendis was cool for a while but then went too long like w/ most characters.That and he does 616 terrible anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by XenobladerX View Post
    Civil War #4
    They think this was a "hell of a send-off".... bruh self-awareness

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenobladerX View Post
    Civil War #4
    Yep, looks like my brain was protecting me from this nonsense.
    Reading List (Super behind but reading them nonetheless):
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  9. #114
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenobladerX View Post
    Civil War #4
    Thanks for posting the image.

    Funny that they gave him back the name Goliath after Dr. Foster had changed his name to Giant-Man years earlier. Goliath being the villain in that biblical story, after all.

    But I guess this bull**** was to be expected, if John Byrne was truthful about how some in the Marvel Bullpen often referred to Dr. Foster as the "Big N-word" (hard R) back in the day. Someone got their fantasy fulfilled with this death scene. Probably someone who will be the first to swear up and down that they don't have a racist bone in their body.

  10. #115
    Incredible Member Superfan90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LukeCagefan View Post
    I couldn't believe how much I actually like Luke Cage pre Bendis having read the old school Power Man stuff. I wish he never had a kid or got married. Claire, Harmony Young and Jenifer Walters I'll take over Jessica Jones any day.
    Yeah, Bendis just regressed Luke for his OC.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    Yeah, Bendis just regressed Luke for his OC.
    Bendis does love his OC's, hopefully he doesn't come back and do Luke or anyone else worse

  12. #117
    Astonishing Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenobladerX View Post
    Civil War #4
    I know you lyin... how you gonna kill him off and then do THIS?!?

    And Tony really thought he did something by paying for it... like yes that is the least you can do.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    They think this was a "hell of a send-off".... bruh self-awareness
    Here is the WORST part of that.....

    I want to say the Black Panther book showed him being buried and there were no chains. I have to find that book.

    And what is WORST how many copies of that trade sold? I am shocked NO ONE said something about that.

    I mean are they that worried about his arms moving?

    SO in a Marvel universe with Reed, Forge and other nerds even Thunderball and Prodigy- NOBODY could have made him normal size? Not even Dr Strange and Brother Voodoo?

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    So they should market comics more digitally then, if that's where the market for this is.Why would Marvel shoot themselves in the foot
    Also all the shop owners I've know enough to talk on a first name basis(5) only care about what sells, but I don't mean to say what you're saying is wrong.Just what I've seen, then again they are also POC's(most of them) so I guess that's why.

    But from both of you I have to ask, is the problem that people can't get these books(from DM) or that they won't buy them(as skyvolt stated)? Because they are polar opposite problems and both seem plausible. Former means theirs hope while later means many readers just won't read POC characters...

    In some case it's not that there are no readers-you just have some places that don't want the books and don't care if it cost them business.

    Archie Comics could have made WAY more money from that horror line if more stores sold the books.

    Heck right now in my city-guess whose book is SOLD OUT everywhere. Static. And that has been a common refrain with him since he first appeared. Even the horrible New 52 Static book-it was about 5-7 years before I saw that book in bins.
    Miles Morales (first volume) was WORST-floppy or trade-couldn't find them.

    I think the battle is your main readers are outside of the comic book store. They are the ones who would rather get a trade or digital more than a floppy.

    I have noticed they dominate in those markets than the floppy. On Amazon Kindle at one point Shuri, Riri, Moon Girl & Ms Marvel outsold every DC book including Batman.

    I would make trades or even digests like Archie.

    You could get away with a $10-$20 OGN of Blue Marvel or Storm.

    Or 300 page digest for $8. 10 30 page stories. Rotate the casts and when the direct market cries-do a trade or one shot.

    Or do both. Do say 4 stories of Storm in that digest and then a trade. If you have Cap America in it for 6 stories-do a floppy.

    Not everyone needs a trade or floppies. So if say Flint gets a set of stories and then say an Inhuman movie with him as the lead. That boosts the sell value of those digests.

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Here is the WORST part of that.....

    I want to say the Black Panther book showed him being buried and there were no chains. I have to find that book.

    And what is WORST how many copies of that trade sold? I am shocked NO ONE said something about that.

    I mean are they that worried about his arms moving?

    SO in a Marvel universe with Reed, Forge and other nerds even Thunderball and Prodigy- NOBODY could have made him normal size? Not even Dr Strange and Brother Voodoo?
    Yeah, that was very stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    In some case it's not that there are no readers-you just have some places that don't want the books and don't care if it cost them business.

    Archie Comics could have made WAY more money from that horror line if more stores sold the books.

    Heck right now in my city-guess whose book is SOLD OUT everywhere. Static. And that has been a common refrain with him since he first appeared. Even the horrible New 52 Static book-it was about 5-7 years before I saw that book in bins.
    Miles Morales (first volume) was WORST-floppy or trade-couldn't find them.

    I think the battle is your main readers are outside of the comic book store. They are the ones who would rather get a trade or digital more than a floppy.

    I have noticed they dominate in those markets than the floppy. On Amazon Kindle at one point Shuri, Riri, Moon Girl & Ms Marvel outsold every DC book including Batman.

    I would make trades or even digests like Archie.

    You could get away with a $10-$20 OGN of Blue Marvel or Storm.

    Or 300 page digest for $8. 10 30 page stories. Rotate the casts and when the direct market cries-do a trade or one shot.

    Or do both. Do say 4 stories of Storm in that digest and then a trade. If you have Cap America in it for 6 stories-do a floppy.

    Not everyone needs a trade or floppies. So if say Flint gets a set of stories and then say an Inhuman movie with him as the lead. That boosts the sell value of those digests.
    Interesting, still haven't gotten very familiar w/ online sales and diff. etc. but you make good points

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