The Comic Book Audience: Does anyone here side with or disagree with what this creator is saying?

[The S0/\/\@7ic Si/\/\[]Dl370n]

I have to admit, I’m frustrated. Sales on the book continue to drop and there doesn’t seem to be much I can do to stop it. I’ve tried everything I can.

I got a big-name voice actor to do my trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOaGZnUmiI0

I got national news coverage.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/26129122/d...n-in-his-mouth
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loca...268765551.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/disabl...-in-his-mouth/
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...sZ-c3zWyJExC3g

I switched the book to color.



Nothing seems to be working.

It’s a critically acclaimed series, with an average of 8.9 out of 10 over 59 reviews. It’s good. I say that without a hint of arrogance. It really is a good series.

So the conclusion I’m coming to is that people really don’t want female-led books. Unless it’s Harley Quinn, Wonder Woman or Batgirl.

They really don’t want characters of color, racial diversity, or LGBT representation.

What I’m learning is that I should be drawing and writing books about dudes and the oversexed badgirls they fool around with. I can’t make a living doing what I’m doing, so why not sell out, right? That’s where the money is.

Except I really DON’T believe that. I BELIEVE in what I’m doing. I believe that there’s an audience for it.

It’s time for that audience to step up.

CALL or GO INTO your local comic shop and order the trade. The order number is APR140534. Don’t get it at Amazon, tell your comic book store there are readers. Monthlies aren’t sold on Amazon, and monthlies are how I make a living.

CALL or GO INTO your local comic shop and order the first two issues of the next volume. The order numbers are JUL140458, and AUG140691.

If you really want to see more diversity in comics, it starts with supporting the books that are already trying to make a difference. I’m not the only one. RACHEL RISING, GENIUS, CONCRETE PARK and many other great books about strong women and people of color are out there and they need your support.

Without it, we’ll have to close up shop.

http://larime.tumblr.com/post/957676...on-lifesupport

Honestly, from my viewpoint, things sort of do look pretty dire.

[Arvandor]

Monthlies aren’t sold on Amazon, and monthlies are how I make a living.


That's pretty much the problem right there. If indie creators are relying on monthlies to survive, then yeah, stick to spandex and bad girls.

[CSTowle]

Can't blame someone for trying to get word out. Sadly though, every month there are new titles coming out (especially from Image) and budgets are limited. It's hard to stand out in the pack (though his is a great story, and I wish him success), and harder still to get most people to venture outside of their comfort zone. I'm guilty of it myself.

I buy around 40 regular monthly titles, and a bunch of things that come out semi-regularly (or once in a blue moon) and feel like I spend too much, but then I see 10 or so titles I'm pretty sure I'd also enjoy if I could afford to pick them up (not to mention probably another 10-20 I'm not even aware of). Big pie, and it's not like Netflix or cable where it's a part of a package and you can pick and choose with no cost. It's a commitment, especially if they're planning to stick it out (and the track record of new monthlies not always lasting past 20-30 issues making people nervous about getting invested). As with most things creative and commercial, the only thing that can be done is to keep putting out the very best product you can and hoping word gets out.

[cgh]

Fatale and Velvet did/are doing pretty well. I'm not sure about Rachel Rising but it's Moore's second female-led series (the first was Echo, unless you also count Strangers In Paradise). And of course there is Mind Mgmt and Sex Criminals, two of the most critically-acclaimed comics around right now.

So I'm not sure the whole "female leads don't sell" angle is entirely accurate. A Voice in the Dark is pretty bleak stuff: "normal" girl loves killing people and is on her way to becoming a serial killer, most of the victims are good-looking affluent girls and there's a lot of sexual content. The sex is mostly not very pleasant as it involves rape, exploitation, betrayal and the like.

That said, it's well written and drawn and has a character-driven focus. But it also comes across as being written by a guy, in particular the focus on young, upper middle class, attractive female victims. In real life, women are relatively rarely murdered (you are many times more likely to be killed if you're a guy and it goes way up if you're a black guy) so that part of the series seems cliched and eye-rollingly exploitative, at least to me.

In the end, it's a book about a serial killer who predominantly kills young women. Aside from the twist that it's a young woman who is doing the killing, it's just not a creative standout compared to the titles I mentioned earlier. I should add the disclaimer that maybe it's changed in nature since I last read it.

[tombo]

makes me feel like if I don't buy his comic I'm bigoted. Maybe I can want female/ethnic characters and still not be into his particular comic.

[Vibranium]

agree with asking the audience to step up

the problem is, the audience doesn't like being "told"

[Shawn Hopkins]

I personally don't like this particular comic, it's kind of a creepy story about a serial killer and despite it getting good reviews I didn't feel it was that well told or authentic feeling. Like cgh said, despite the killer being a woman it's so, so clearly a dark dude fantasy. But the overall point, that the Wednesday warriors who buy comics each week are more interested in superheroes than dark, troubling indies is well-made. It might be better to find another format or distribution method for this particular book. I know it's on Comixology, I wonder how well it does there.

[Mikekerr3]

agree with asking the audience to step up

the problem is, the audience doesn't like being "told"

You can't bla,e the audience for buying what it likes, telling them what they should like is sheer hubris

[Lady Warp Spasm]

makes me feel like if I don't buy his comic I'm bigoted. Maybe I can want female/ethnic characters and still not be into his particular comic.

Well I don't feel bigoted if I don't buy his comic (and I wouldn't anyway - not my type of content.) Do not preach or force anything on me. If you just let your characters be and have a good story, people will come doesn't matter what the characters are. I do not know why people feel the need to have to explain or force what gender, ethnicity or sexual persuasion their characters are onto the audience, if they're great characters and written well, we'll get that without the shoe-horn.

It is tough to gauge audience tastes. And it very tough to make a living doing independent work.

Regardless of my non-support, I will say hats off to the writer for publishing your work, that's a hell of lot more than what I've done.

[The S0/\/\@7ic Si/\/\[]Dl370n]

Wait, forget non-superheroes for a second. Are people in this thread really trying to imply that DC and Marvel "aren't the places to go to" for minority characters, especially minority superheroes?

Really?

This is 2014. Doesn't that reflect horribly on DC and Marvel?

[Larime Taylor]

Wow am I late to this thread! I'll address things as I read in order. Off the top, no, it's not for eveyone.

As for the handful of claims (in over 700 notes on the Tumblr post) that I’m guilting anyone or accusing anyone of not supporting women, people of color, or kittens and puppies if they aren’t buying my book, I respect your opinion, but I disagree. Strongly. I think the post and the intent was pretty clear, and the vast majority of people reading it seem to agree. I wrote it in frustration, yes, and some things can always be worded better, but I’m seeing a few people ascribe to me an attitude that is simply not who I am.

I’m an ally in trying to improve representation in comics because I myself have been ignored, marginalized and treated as an ‘other’ because of my disability. I’m on your side. If you don’t like my book, or how I promote it, or it’s just not your thing, then that’s fine! Really, I don’t mind.

But as someone working in comics and seeing many others outside of DC and Marvel trying to bring diversity to the scene and watching them get ignored and get frustrated, too, I know I’m not making up a problem that doesn’t exist. We’re trying, and we’re losing the fight. We need help.

That’s all I’m really trying to say.

On to responses!

A Voice in the Dark is pretty bleak stuff: "normal" girl loves killing people and is on her way to becoming a serial killer, most of the victims are good-looking affluent girls and there's a lot of sexual content. The sex is mostly not very pleasant as it involves rape, exploitation, betrayal and the like.

Uh... no it doesn't? There has yet to be a single panel of nudity, no real cheesecake, and the majority of the violence is off-panel.

That said, it's well written and drawn and has a character-driven focus. But it also comes across as being written by a guy, in particular the focus on young, upper middle class, attractive female victims. In real life, women are relatively rarely murdered (you are many times more likely to be killed if you're a guy and it goes way up if you're a black guy) so that part of the series seems cliched and eye-rollingly exploitative, at least to me.

The main character goes to an upscale women's college. That's the setting, not a reflection of me being a guy.

In the end, it's a book about a serial killer who predominantly kills young women. Aside from the twist that it's a young woman who is doing the killing, it's just not a creative standout compared to the titles I mentioned earlier. I should add the disclaimer that maybe it's changed in nature since I last read it.

What issue(s) have you read? I'm curious as to the perspective.

[Pinsir]

Wow am I late to this thread! I'll address things as I read in order. Off the top, no, it's not for eveyone.

As for the handful of claims (in over 700 notes on the Tumblr post) that I’m guilting anyone or accusing anyone of not supporting women, people of color, or kittens and puppies if they aren’t buying my book, I respect your opinion, but I disagree. Strongly. I think the post and the intent was pretty clear, and the vast majority of people reading it seem to agree. I wrote it in frustration, yes, and some things can always be worded better, but I’m seeing a few people ascribe to me an attitude that is simply not who I am.

I’m an ally in trying to improve representation in comics because I myself have been ignored, marginalized and treated as an ‘other’ because of my disability. I’m on your side. If you don’t like my book, or how I promote it, or it’s just not your thing, then that’s fine! Really, I don’t mind.

But as someone working in comics and seeing many others outside of DC and Marvel trying to bring diversity to the scene and watching them get ignored and get frustrated, too, I know I’m not making up a problem that doesn’t exist. We’re trying, and we’re losing the fight. We need help.

That’s all I’m really trying to say.

On to responses!



Uh... no it doesn't? There has yet to be a single panel of nudity, no real cheesecake, and the majority of the violence is off-panel.



The main character goes to an upscale women's college. That's the setting, not a reflection of me being a guy.



What issue(s) have you read? I'm curious as to the perspective.

We do not doubt your intentions sir, but I think I and some others have pointed out that those who want diversity are usually the ones complaining that comics are so 'grim dark.' I think the success of Mrs. Marvel proves there is a market, but at the same its bright, cheery and memeful.

For me personally, the first none DC comic I bought was Rocketgirl (who is Asian), then latter Mrs. Marvel. Dark comics just don't interest me that much.

[Larime Taylor]

We do not doubt your intentions sir, but I think I and some others have pointed out that those who want diversity are usually the ones complaining that comics are so 'grim dark.' I think the success of Mrs. Marvel proves there is a market, but at the same its bright, cheery and memeful.

For me personally, the first none DC comic I bought was Rocketgirl (who is Asian), then latter Mrs. Marvel. Dark comics just don't interest me that much.

And that's fair. I appreciate the feedback!

[Pyrebomb]

Wow am I late to this thread! I'll address things as I read in order. Off the top, no, it's not for eveyone.

As for the handful of claims (in over 700 notes on the Tumblr post) that I’m guilting anyone or accusing anyone of not supporting women, people of color, or kittens and puppies if they aren’t buying my book, I respect your opinion, but I disagree. Strongly. I think the post and the intent was pretty clear, and the vast majority of people reading it seem to agree. I wrote it in frustration, yes, and some things can always be worded better, but I’m seeing a few people ascribe to me an attitude that is simply not who I am.

I’m an ally in trying to improve representation in comics because I myself have been ignored, marginalized and treated as an ‘other’ because of my disability. I’m on your side. If you don’t like my book, or how I promote it, or it’s just not your thing, then that’s fine! Really, I don’t mind.

But as someone working in comics and seeing many others outside of DC and Marvel trying to bring diversity to the scene and watching them get ignored and get frustrated, too, I know I’m not making up a problem that doesn’t exist. We’re trying, and we’re losing the fight. We need help.

That’s all I’m really trying to say.

Those are links to reviews from all the major review sites - hardly the equivalent of Amazon comments.

Apologies. I'm unfamiliar with the site and thought I was in the "user review" section, as those tend to be much more populated than the critical section.

That's not what I said, but okay. Sure.

It's your tone. I probably added a lot of my own negativity to it, having had some very bad recent experiences with artists on tumblr that I really don't want to get into, but I'm not the first person to read it as "guilt-tripping" or negative in nature. As you said, you were frustrated when you wrote it, so that is understandable. God knows that I have said 100 times worse when in a similar frame of mind. But as other people have stated, tumblr is your main method of marketing, right now. I know dozens of artists who have successfully used tumblr to establish a fanbase and begin the arduous journey of breaking into the industry. I know others who aren't quite as successful. (And by "know," I don't mean I recognize their URL in passing. I mean we've chatted on Skype or AIM or even met at cons.) The main difference is tone. It's the old adage of "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

Don't make posts when you are in a negative mindset. Or if you have to, fake it. Act like you are the happiest, humblest person in the world. Just comparing your responses in this thread to what I scrolled through on the first few pages of your tumblr, I see a marked difference. It's highly ironic that I'm telling you this, as I do not have a great reputation for being positive and upbeat, but then I also have a pretty good idea of how most tumblr users are going to react to anything they don't feel comes from a butterfly-filled place of sunshine. I think if your tumblr post had been more along the lines of the appeal I have quoted, it would have been seen in a more positive light and met with a more positive response. This is why celebs have PR people. But you have to be your own PR person, so it's always good to take a few steps back and think of how the words you choose are going to come across. Because words always carry implications beyond their literal meanings, and you might not be aware of them if you're too emotional or stuck in your own headspace. If that's the case, ask a friend to read it before you post it. Or leave any emotional judgements out of it entirely. Tell us about your story and post previews. Heck, even mention that sales are bad and signal boosts are appreciated. But don't tell us why you think it isn't doing great because you don't really know. You don't know what the mindset of people uninterested in your product is. And you likely won't know what story-telling choices you made didn't work until it has been behind you for a bit. It's very hard to self-evaluate in the middle of a project. That comes after. I don't mean to tell you what to do, I'm just offering honest advice as someone who has observed tumblr culture, and more specifically the artistic side of it, for a good while.

Personally, I find the fact that this whole project seems to have gotten its start on tumblr (I hope I'm not making an incorrect assumption that that is where you advertised your kickstarter) intriguing as all hell. Tumblr seems to be simultaneously the best and worst place to market this. A comic filled with minorities created entirely by a disabled artist? That is the sort of **** they will eat up. The actual subject matter? Well... Let's just say one of the reviews I read on that website said something along the lines of "this entire comic is a giant trigger warning." And then I laughed because I knew that reader was from tumblr.

It's only plagiarism if you're tracing other people's photos without permission. Like Greg Land has made a career out of.

Duly noted. And that is why he is such a joke in the industry. I still don't know how he gets hired at all, yet alone consistently by the Big 2.

[Vic Vega]

Monthlies aren’t sold on Amazon, and monthlies are how I make a living.


That's pretty much the problem right there. If indie creators are relying on monthlies to survive, then yeah, stick to spandex and bad girls.

Laramie's stuff does have an audience but it isn't the folks who go to the comic shop every Wednesday.

Unfortunately, Kindle mostly does trades.

It doesn't help any that there is a lot of crime fiction, noir and neo-noir on the stands now that is in competition with him for the segment of the audience that he can get.