The Comic Book Audience: Does anyone here side with or disagree with what this creator is saying?

[FanboyStranger]

To be fair, even most minority, female and LGBT-focused titles struggle to sell, unless they're Golden Age characters or have strong ties to one.

I think people have brought up a pretty good point with the superhero thing, given that even non-superhero books from the Big 2 usually tank or don't manage to sell that well, no-matter how well-received they are.



How should he have marketed it before-hand? How should he have marketed it from the start?

He did do quite a few interviews, including several on CBR. A few of these focused on how he creates the story, which was a fascinating portrait on how someone with disabilities can still produce art with a little imagination and finding different methods to maximize their skills. I'm not sure what any creator can do beyond that unless they can afford to buy advertising by themselves. I'm also not sure if anyone actually reads these kinds of interviews or articles as everytime a book gets cancelled, people come out of the woodwork and say that they knew nothing about the book and its poor marketing despite the multiple articles across several websites.

[Carabas]

To get me to buy something you need to hook me with characters and story.

[Vibranium]

don't expect to me fall in love at first read, don't tell me I should be reading it

[The S0/\/\@7ic Si/\/\[]Dl370n]

He did do quite a few interviews, including several on CBR. A few of these focused on how he creates the story, which was a fascinating portrait on how someone with disabilities can still produce art with a little imagination and finding different methods to maximize their skills. I'm not sure what any creator can do beyond that unless they can afford to buy advertising by themselves. I'm also not sure if anyone actually reads these kinds of interviews or articles as everytime a book gets cancelled, people come out of the woodwork and say that they knew nothing about the book and its poor marketing despite the multiple articles across several websites.

Yeah, I find it pretty odd how common this is for most books.

There's always a bunch of interviews and previews for books on places like CBR and Newsarama, as well as other comics websites, before launch, and yet, people always go "I've never heard about this book" after it's cancelled.

To get me to buy something you need to hook me with characters and story.

And what would be the best way to do this, that would also apply for the largest audience as possible? Keep in mind that, as he noted, the book is critically acclaimed.

By the way, for the creator in question, exactly how much marketing does he have to do, especially in talking about his books, the characters and story?

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=55101
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=47367
http://www.previewsworld.com/Home/1/...ticleID=146752
http://dailydead.com/exclusive-qa-vo...larime-taylor/
http://www.geekquality.com/larime_taylor/
http://womenwriteaboutcomics.com/201...d-sylv-taylor/
http://www.tuffgnarl.com/larime-taylor-interview/
http://www.nerdspan.com/interview-cr...larime-taylor/
http://www.unleashthefanboy.com/comi.../84280#!bLOarX

There's even been previews on multiple sites.

http://comicsalliance.com/watch-the-...e-in-the-dark/
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...eview&id=19387
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...eview&id=20277
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...eview&id=23249
https://www.comicbookcritic.net/prev...larime-taylor/
http://www.brokenfrontier.com/previe...in-the-dark-2/
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/03/...in-the-dark-5/

Exactly what else is he supposed to do?

[Arvandor]

Yeah, I find it pretty odd how common this is for most books.

There's always a bunch of interviews and previews for books on places like CBR and Newsarama, as well as other comics websites, before launch, and yet, people always go "I've never heard about this book" after it's cancelled.

I wonder how many people - like myself - only bookmark the forums of these sites, rather than the front page. I bet its more than a few.

[dahllaz]

I wonder how many people - like myself - only bookmark the forums of these sites, rather than the front page. I bet its more than a few.

This is what I do as well.

[Kees_L]

DI370n]
The Comic Book Audience: Does anyone here side with or disagree with what this creator is saying?

Nah, not really. It's as if I don't feel myself part of the intended audience, or as if I'd be experiencing other books as potentially my kind of thing comic-book-wise much more rather than this particular one.
I didn't know of this book, but now from what I've seen of it, I respectfully wouldn't buy it.

For me there seems to exist such a wealth of comics or books I should likely be knowing about, both independent or heavily marketed ones, either recent titles or as dating from whenever, which leaves me not limited or bound to only monthlies in the slightest. But as a reader I would be willing or intent on finding foremostly those works which would be speaking to me particularly on a creative or imaginative level.

I like comic books to appeal to me as being comic books, instead of open invitations onto movie-scripts or either as seeming typical publisher-stepping stones or be it works onto wanting to deserve just any main audience its attention all too overly, or only in but imaginative or aesthetically innovative ways.
I found such in Lou Fine or Kirby or Krigstein books, in Toth or Wood or Williamson books, in Mignola or Chaykin or Charles Burns, or recently in Powell or Sook or David Petersen or James Harren books, but there'll be plenty more of such as completely seeming to speak my language, I would believe.

I'm not sure how well any of those folks manage to be making a living, but I'm sure none of them would simply be demanding to live of making comics exclusively if they couldn't.
I personally would want to be the next movie-trailer-voice-guy, because I'd deserve it, but it seems I'm not.
So I'm not, but I make due: "Making Due He Calls It... But What Drives Him... To This... Absurdity?" etc.

[Puppetmaker Grae]

I wonder how many people - like myself - only bookmark the forums of these sites, rather than the front page. I bet its more than a few.

Raises hand.

As I recall, Laramie was a regular on YABS before Gail Simone left CBR for the BendIs boards.

[Carabas]

I wonder how many people - like myself - only bookmark the forums of these sites, rather than the front page. I bet its more than a few.

Raises hand as well...

I very vaguely recall seeing something about this (probably on YABS) when the first issue cameout and I was mildly intrigued, but I only buy trades/hardcovers, so I figured, we'll see whenever the trade coems out, and I never heard anything about it ever again, until now.

There's a lot of books like that.

[Kees_L]

Oh, to add about this:

female and LGBT-focused titles struggle to sell

I don't think that validating an intended comic book by means of instilling it chuckfull of but emancipated material or now-seeming themology will instantaneously be to make for great comics material. Emancipation will be dandy, but comics need to be to work or be good as on their own merits and their own particularness most fully.

I don't think it would have to be that hard or that new to find a tone or language as to not be utterly alienating whatever type or specific group of readers.
I feel I could think of plenty of independent potentially controversial or particular works as not being to alienate or exclude readers typically.

I would think that for instance neither the Hernandez Brothers, Alan Moore or Frank Miller (except maybe for his more recent angry stuff which would come down to only two titles versus a ton of much more thoughtful ones, including Sin City), Bill Sienkiewicz, Charles Burns, Ted McKeever, Mike Mignola, or Robert Crumb, neither of those would be all too eager on alienating readers overly.

It might be some authors or creators wish to tickle controversy, or be to raise eyebrows in specific corners, which would be their own prerogative as creatives. Like Crumb drawing out the hair and curves of ladies as he would quite specifically.

There'd be artists like Dave Stevens or Arthur Adams or Frank Cho or Adam Hughes who all seem(-ed) hardly too high-and-mighty at all to be drawing juxtapositioned female butts and boobs for as long as fans would be coughing up hefty dollars for such? Which could be part to some alienation, but hardly the sole cause or full magnitude of what *majority male apologism* among comics or their fanbases would be amounting to?

There might be plenty of male chauvinist crap-ass outright drivelly comics, but nobody's stopping anyone from making good stuff, as that would also seem available, quite readily for anyone actually open to such, without limiting themselves to but the biggest or most known or most available seeming stuff.

If you think Wonder Woman or Batman, the Avengers or even the X-Men would seem to be sounding kind of crummy, there's still a gazillion of other stuff out there, selling like... cakes that haven't gone stale... Yet! So hurry up, or all creators will starve to death, besides all that cake still hot. Or they may end up a baker for hire, or who knows what. Possibly even lawyers.

[ExcelsiorPrime]

there is a tradition called the "POT BOILER" its basically a commercial project that funds other projects. It usually has low artistic value and caters to mass market.

I suggest the artist try that..look what is selling and improve upon the genre. Go slightly bad girl art but trick readers with a good story or go superhero. Or take a TOP story from the headlines and incorporate it into a storyline. Then you can do side projects.

Just my 2 cents. Your art and storytelling are amazing from what ive seen..its just getting people to buy..in a glut of product.


I hate to say it but Shock value works as well.

[The S0/\/\@7ic Si/\/\[]Dl370n]

Nah, not really. It's as if I don't feel myself part of the intended audience, or as if I'd be experiencing other books as potentially my kind of thing comic-book-wise much more rather than this particular one.
I didn't know of this book, but now from what I've seen of it, I respectfully wouldn't buy it.

For me there seems to exist such a wealth of comics or books I should likely be knowing about, both independent or heavily marketed ones, either recent titles or as dating from whenever, which leaves me not limited or bound to only monthlies in the slightest. But as a reader I would be willing or intent on finding foremostly those works which would be speaking to me particularly on a creative or imaginative level.

I like comic books to appeal to me as being comic books, instead of open invitations onto movie-scripts or either as seeming typical publisher-stepping stones or be it works onto wanting to deserve just any main audience its attention all too overly, or only in but imaginative or aesthetically innovative ways.
I found such in Lou Fine or Kirby or Krigstein books, in Toth or Wood or Williamson books, in Mignola or Chaykin or Charles Burns, or recently in Powell or Sook or David Petersen or James Harren books, but there'll be plenty more of such as completely seeming to speak my language, I would believe.

I'm not sure how well any of those folks manage to be making a living, but I'm sure none of them would simply be demanding to live of making comics exclusively if they couldn't.
I personally would want to be the next movie-trailer-voice-guy, because I'd deserve it, but it seems I'm not.
So I'm not, but I make due: "Making Due He Calls It... But What Drives Him... To This... Absurdity?" etc.

Oh, to add about this:



I don't think that validating an intended comic book by means of instilling it chuckfull of but emancipated material or now-seeming themology will instantaneously be to make for great comics material. Emancipation will be dandy, but comics need to be to work or be good as on their own merits and their own particularness most fully.

I don't think it would have to be that hard or that new to find a tone or language as to not be utterly alienating whatever type or specific group of readers.
I feel I could think of plenty of independent potentially controversial or particular works as not being to alienate or exclude readers typically.

I would think that for instance neither the Hernandez Brothers, Alan Moore or Frank Miller (except maybe for his more recent angry stuff which would come down to only two titles versus a ton of much more thoughtful ones, including Sin City), Bill Sienkiewicz, Charles Burns, Ted McKeever, Mike Mignola, or Robert Crumb, neither of those would be all too eager on alienating readers overly.

It might be some authors or creators wish to tickle controversy, or be to raise eyebrows in specific corners, which would be their own prerogative as creatives. Like Crumb drawing out the hair and curves of ladies as he would quite specifically.

There'd be artists like Dave Stevens or Arthur Adams or Frank Cho or Adam Hughes who all seem(-ed) hardly too high-and-mighty at all to be drawing juxtapositioned female butts and boobs for as long as fans would be coughing up hefty dollars for such? Which could be part to some alienation, but hardly the sole cause or full magnitude of what *majority male apologism* among comics or their fanbases would be amounting to?

There might be plenty of male chauvinist crap-ass outright drivelly comics, but nobody's stopping anyone from making good stuff, as that would also seem available, quite readily for anyone actually open to such, without limiting themselves to but the biggest or most known or most available seeming stuff.

If you think Wonder Woman or Batman, the Avengers or even the X-Men would seem to be sounding kind of crummy, there's still a gazillion of other stuff out there, selling like... cakes that haven't gone stale... Yet! So hurry up, or all creators will starve to death, besides all that cake still hot. Or they may end up a baker for hire, or who knows what. Possibly even lawyers.

In this case, given that the book has gotten good reviews, and that the people who pick it up actually seem to be enjoying it, isn't that exactly what he's doing?

I'm not exactly sure why what this guy is doing would qualify as fishing for a movie script

there is a tradition called the "POT BOILER" its basically a commercial project that funds other projects. It usually has low artistic value and caters to mass market.

I suggest the artist try that..look what is selling and improve upon the genre. Go slightly bad girl art but trick readers with a good story or go superhero. Or take a TOP story from the headlines and incorporate it into a storyline. Then you can do side projects.

Just my 2 cents. Your art and storytelling are amazing from what ive seen..its just getting people to buy..in a glut of product.


I hate to say it but Shock value works as well.

So in other words, he has to start relying on gimmicks to draw readers in instead of the quality of the book itself?

[Vibranium]

So in other words, he has to start relying on gimmicks to draw readers in instead of the quality of the book itself?

quality does not always equal success...in some cases yes, but you do have to do a fair amount of pandering to get people in the door, and once youve established your base, you can start doing the stuff you really want to do

[Kees_L]

In this case, given that the book has gotten good reviews, and that the people who pick it up actually seem to be enjoying it, isn't that exactly what he's doing?

For those people perhaps, yes. But I would honestly have to say that from the panels and pages I was shown via this thread, the graphical storytelling and tone seems to be doing very little to me as a reader.
Which is all I can say really, if in your eyes it's good than that's that but I'm reading things through my own.

I'm not exactly sure why what this guy is doing would qualify as fishing for a movie script

True but that wouldn't be what I was saying.
I meant that especially among more recent superhero comics I feel to see a number of comics with graphics all very vibrantly colored as if to say "this isn't grim Batman or crime stuff - yet still very growed up - with teenage angst and genders!", with like a Disney glossy daytime television filter, letting so little manage to really speak out or be to alternate a pace as how comics might allow for.
Among such titles in general I'd feel such titles mainly get made for fitting a TPB-collection, with possible movie-rights around the corner, but also seeming as made to entice movie-goers moreso than comics-readers.

Whereas for comics as outspoken as Moore's Watchmen or Miller's Sin City or either Walt Simonson or Steranko on a roll, it seems much more about ink and how it could be read, as however it could be made to entice. When comparing for instance either Stuart Immonen's or Cameron Stewart's Big Two stuff to their own indy or self-published stuff I feel to be noticing so much more depth or room for voice and storytelling. That's what comics would or could be for me.

Plus from my own experiences people like to differ in how they read or hear or buy things. It's great to not completely agree on things, if only onto finding your own particular voice or thing, regardless of your gender or *preference*. I feel I couldn't care less about what the majority of people would like to read or see, as I'd be more about what I'd personally be really liking to read and see, in order to be able to really be liking what I like.
As yet I have given away or lost interest in less than a dozen books and records/cds and even games combined, although I've been buying such stuff consistently eversince over 25 years ago. I literally keep liking the stuff to bits, especially the good stuff.

[dupont2005]

Exactly what else is he supposed to do?

Accept that good non superhero comics do not sell in the numbers the worst superhero comics do. Terry Moore quit comics because of it. I'm sure this guy is good, but is he so much better than Terry Moore that he should expect a different result?

The sad fact is the comic would sell better if it had a Liefeld variant cover.