Batman only makes sense in the Justice League if...?

[Wat]

Yeah, Batman's methods inspire fear in CRIMINALS, but are there any of Batman's Justice League peers or his other allies that are scared of him? Yeah, I think Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, John Stewart, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, etc. being scared of him would be ridiculous as well.

To Bats everyone is a potential THREAT one step away from becoming a despicable criminal hence his CREED of I don't trust anybody and keeping even his allies uncomfortable around him.

[The True Detective]

Well, if this ain't the pot calling the kettle black.



About as much as any other thread made about Batman has to do with this one.



Yeah, that's kind of one of the problems here.


No. There are way more instances of this happening to characters appearing less than Batman or even ones appearing nearly as often as he does.



We don't hear about them much because they don't happen as much as you think they do.



Just like how according to you, no one ever complains about the Batfamily, the Titans or ever disses a character that isn't Batman. You're not even actually reading the responses to this thread. If you were, you'd notice that few, if any, are actually hating on him, just criticizing his role and siting ways it could be better.

Also, you're not exactly helping your case by having a quote about how Bruce Wayne fans hate the Batfamily in your profile.

I've said multiple times in the past that some people hate the Batfamily, I've never denied that, you have not once ever said any Batman hatred exists on here. The quote in my sig is a joke referencing the idea that every Batman fan hates the Batfamily. While I admit a lot of Bruce fans don't like the Batfamily it's not as bad as vice versa and you know why? Because there are more Batfamily fans here then Bruce fans. Batfamily haters are a minority and for every poster who doesn't like them there are 5 more ready to defend them. Notice how few people come to Bruce's defense in these kind of threads.

Yeah, it is a problem for him to get **** on for having more PIS feats by virtue of appearing in more stories, he isn't getting them out of the kindness of the writer's heart. Jack up the number of appearances for any human without powers and there wanked moments will skyrocket too. Put Green Arrow in every other book DC publishes and he'll put BatGod to shame. Only I don't think he'll get the same number of complaints.

You couldn't even deny my points about your comparison to the complaints on Wonder Woman's board to the complaints Batman gets not being the same. On her forum there's a power level complaint thread. Her fans actually complain about her not being strong or respected enough, not having good enough feats, always jobbing, not even flying in her movies. So the idea her and Batman get the same treatment is total nonsense. There aren't any similar threads for him here or on his own forum.

Gaius doesn't like BatGod at all, pretty sure they hate him actually and even they pointed out how often we get these threads. So it goes both ways, you can say not everyone who dislikes BatGod is a hater and I can say even people who can't stand him think these threads pop up way too much. Oh and since you want to present yourself as fair and balanced mind telling me your thoughts on why the OP specifically singled Batman out instead of any other nonpowered JL hero who has fought alongside the meta members?

If there is no bias against him surely the OP should've done what they did in their thread about overpowered characters and not singled any 1 character out. Why do you think this thread is about Batman and not about how NO hero without powers in general should be fighting alongside gods. That means no Batman, Green Arrow, Mister Terrific, none of them. Why do you think Batman was singled out here?

[MoneySpider]

To Bats everyone is a potential THREAT one step away from becoming a despicable criminal hence his CREED of I don't trust anybody and keeping even his allies uncomfortable around him.

I'm not sure his peers/allies being uncomfortable around him at certain times is the same thing as them being scared of him. For instance, if Wonder Woman feels uncomfortable around Batman one day because she found out Batman used Kryptonite against Superman, that doesn't necessarily mean she is scared of Batman. It just means she is not comfortable with what he did and has issues with it.

Same thing with Superman. He most likely wouldn't feel comfortable around a man who keeps using Kryptonite against him. If anything, he'd likely be pissed off. But scared? I think there is a difference between being uncomfortable around someone and being scared of that someone.

[Alan2099]

To Bats everyone is a potential THREAT one step away from becoming a despicable criminal hence his CREED of I don't trust anybody and keeping even his allies uncomfortable around him.

Which makes him a paranoid nutjob who's constantly expecting betray so he sits in his dark underground lair plotting ways to kill heroes in the event that they cross him.

To me, that really sounds more like a villain than a good guy.

Tactile genius or not, I can't see why the JLA would want a guy who sits there, looking for every weakness in a person, and thinking of ways to kill them.

[The Darknight Detective]

Heh. Every time I see these threads, The Impossible Dream starts playing in my brain. Don Quixote had a better chance fighting his imaginary windmills than the effort to diminish Batman's popularity.

[SiegePerilous02]

I've said multiple times in the past that some people hate the Batfamily, I've never denied that, you have not once ever said any Batman hatred exists on here. The quote in my sig is a joke referencing the idea that every Batman fan hates the Batfamily. While I admit a lot of Bruce fans don't like the Batfamily it's not as bad as vice versa and you know why? Because there are more Batfamily fans here then Bruce fans. Batfamily haters are a minority and for every poster who doesn't like them there are 5 more ready to defend them. Notice how few people come to Bruce's defense in these kind of threads.

Yeah, it is a problem for him to get **** on for having more PIS feats by virtue of appearing in more stories, he isn't getting them out of the kindness of the writer's heart. Jack up the number of appearances for any human without powers and there wanked moments will skyrocket too. Put Green Arrow in every other book DC publishes and he'll put BatGod to shame. Only I don't think he'll get the same number of complaints.

You couldn't even deny my points about your comparison to the complaints on Wonder Woman's board to the complaints Batman gets not being the same. On her forum there's a power level complaint thread. Her fans actually complain about her not being strong or respected enough, not having good enough feats, always jobbing, not even flying in her movies. So the idea her and Batman get the same treatment is total nonsense. There aren't any similar threads for him here or on his own forum.

Gaius doesn't like BatGod at all, pretty sure they hate him actually and even they pointed out how often we get these threads. So it goes both ways, you can say not everyone who dislikes BatGod is a hater and I can say even people who can't stand him think these threads pop up way too much. Oh and since you want to present yourself as fair and balanced mind telling me your thoughts on why the OP specifically singled Batman out instead of any other nonpowered JL hero who has fought alongside the meta members?

If there is no bias against him surely the OP should've done what they did in their thread about overpowered characters and not singled any 1 character out. Why do you think this thread is about Batman and not about how NO hero without powers in general should be fighting alongside gods. That means no Batman, Green Arrow, Mister Terrific, none of them. Why do you think Batman was singled out here?

Batman gets singled out because he's the most popular example by far out of all those, and he gets his ass kissed to the detriment of other characters more than anyone else.

And he's DC's most popular character and his franchise is DC's golden goose. His popularity isn't going to be dented by threads like (which, as Agent Z says, isn't even unanimous bashing of Batman in general, just specific ways some versions of him are written), so why waste energy getting worked up over it? Just tune it out and go consume the vast amount of Bat-products DC puts out and continues to put out. He will continue to get way more than anyone else no matter how salty other fanbases get.

Also for the WW power level complaint thread--- that's mostly because threads kept getting derailed with that topic and a big chunk of WW fans wanted it quarantined because we were sick of it ourselves.

Heh. Every time I see these threads, The Impossible Dream starts playing in my brain. Don Quixote had a better chance fighting his imaginary windmills than the effort to diminish Batman's popularity.

I also have to wonder if Batman's popularity would be diminished if he wasn't a douchebag?

Because you're right, his popularity cannot be argued, but I have to wonder if it would be quite so obnoxious to everyone else if he also wasn't so unlikeable/borderline Mary Sue-ish at the same time he's being shoved everywhere.

[The Darknight Detective]

I also have to wonder if Batman's popularity would be diminished if he wasn't a douchebag?

Because you're right, his popularity cannot be argued, but I have to wonder if it would be quite so obnoxious to everyone else if he also wasn't so unlikeable/borderline Mary Sue-ish at the same time he's being shoved everywhere.

I guess the question why any popular character attracts its number of fans can be asked to all of them. Do they all share your extremely negative description of Batman? Since the answer is no, I suspect it's something else.

[SiegePerilous02]

I guess the question why any popular character attracts its number of fans can be asked to all of them. Do they all share your extremely negative description of Batman? Since the answer is no, I suspect it's something else.

It's not all encompassing negative description of all versions of Batman, just FYI. But the main backlash from his being on the League comes from the way he is used, none of which seems necessary since he'd be one of their most popular characters without it.

Batman doesn't have a tiny dick, why does he sometimes act like it? It's beneath him to overcompensate by acting like an ******* to his allies and plot against them. And to have those plots work to boost his popularity, which he doesn't need.

[phonogram12]

The Flash can do a lot more than just run fast, though, like phasing through walls or whatever and having the ability to vibrate his hand through someone's chest if he wanted to, or traveling through time and whatever else his speed powers allow him to do. Wonder Woman has many more abilities than using her lasso because they have POWERS.

Every time I hear about Batman's level of realism compared to heroes who have super powers I can't help but wonder if those very same people hear the irony of those statements.

[The Darknight Detective]

Every time I hear about Batman's level of realism compared to heroes who have super powers I can't help but wonder if those very same people hear the irony of those statements.

Well, it's impossible for any of us to be a hero with super powers, but it is possible to be Batman-like (though only up to a point, of course - closer to the Bat wannabes from The Dark Knight than CB Bruce).

[Ascended]

He bank roles the team and he’s the behind the scenes planning guy. Any role that has him fighting side by side with demigods is silly.

Not reading all these pages, but I generally agree. Bruce shouldn't be on the front lines fighting the likes of Despero or Darkseid. That's a waste of his skills and the things that make him stand out from the crowd. Bruce should be in the shadows, hacking the enemy's computer while the big bad is distracted fighting the big guns. Or finding that one clue everyone else overlooked that reveals the villain's true plans.

Bruce should be utterly useless in a fight against a League level threat. But that doesn't mean he's not useful. And he's a pulp influenced detective fused with the classic mystery man archetype, if all you do is have him fight alongside the rest of the League, you're not using the character the way he's meant to be used.

Each League story needs components that allow the unique skills and talents of the roster to be highlighted. That means finding something important for Bruce to do that doesn't involve punching an extinction level event in the face.

[The True Detective]

Batman gets singled out because he's the most popular example by far out of all those, and he gets his ass kissed to the detriment of other characters more than anyone else.

And he's DC's most popular character and his franchise is DC's golden goose. His popularity isn't going to be dented by threads like (which, as Agent Z says, isn't even unanimous bashing of Batman in general, just specific ways some versions of him are written), so why waste energy getting worked up over it? Just tune it out and go consume the vast amount of Bat-products DC puts out and continues to put out. He will continue to get way more than anyone else no matter how salty other fanbases get.

Also for the WW power level complaint thread--- that's mostly because threads kept getting derailed with that topic and a big chunk of WW fans wanted it quarantined because we were sick of it ourselves.



I also have to wonder if Batman's popularity would be diminished if he wasn't a douchebag?

Because you're right, his popularity cannot be argued, but I have to wonder if it would be quite so obnoxious to everyone else if he also wasn't so unlikeable/borderline Mary Sue-ish at the same time he's being shoved everywhere.

Lol why do you have to cuss Batman out everytime you talk about him? You mentioned me getting worked up when you're the one using every vulgar insult in the book to talk about a fictional character. You call him a dick, *******, douchebag, not to mention an unlikable Mary Sue. How can someone not real inspire this much anger in someone? NO drawing on a piece of paper has ever got me that riled up. How can I take your critiques of him seriously when you're so clouded by hatred of him? Sure you claim to only hate some versions but you talk about the one's you hate far more than the ones you like.

You have double standards when it comes to the topics. As I've said before you excuse or defend Batman bashing saying who cares it isn't going to hurt his popularity while defending the also very popular Superman when he gets biased threads and complaints against him. Superman isn't even the most powerful hero yet he gets the lions share of " this character is too strong" threads.

I never see you in those telling any annoyed Superman fans to calm down and that those complaints aren't gonna dent his popularity. Instead of arguing with anyone who calls Superman OP or had a problem with him beating the entire League in JL as you told me why not go enjoy all the Superman media available instead of going back and forth with posters venting their frustrations with certain versions of him.

The fact that there's a thread devoted to Wonder Woman's power level shows the complaint pops up enough to warrant it, ie most or a lot of her fans hate what they see as poor treatment of her. On the Batboards no such thread would be necessary because it's the opposite, he's seen as too strong and too competent. The Wonder Woman board is much more behind her than Batman's is behind him.

And just because constant complaing about Batman won't hurt his franchise doesn't mean his fans don't have the right to be annoyed about it, you can't police people's reactions. No one said it's the end of the world if anyone wants to say anything bad about Batman but just as they have the right to voice their opinions, I have the right to voice mine. So if I want to comment on the, imo, overabundance of these threads or ask why he always gets singled out I can and will. To use your own words, don't like my posts don't read them, that simple.

Also as The Darknight Detective said just because YOU and others think modern Batman is some irredeemable evil monster doesn't mean everyone does. He's more popular than he's ever been even when he was a lot nicer in the Golden and Silver Ages. He must not be that unlikable if he's at the peak of his popularity and is by far DC's most popular hero.

[SiegePerilous02]

Lol why do you have to cuss Batman out everytime you talk about him? You mentioned me getting worked up when you're the one using every vulgar insult in the book to talk about a fictional character. You call him a dick, *******, douchebag, not to mention an unlikable Mary Sue. How can someone not real inspire this much anger in someone? NO drawing on a piece of paper has ever got me that riled up. How can I take your critiques of him seriously when you're so clouded by hatred of him? Sure you claim to only hate some versions but you talk about the one's you hate far more than the ones you like.

Lol, you should hear me irl when I don't have a filter on. Vulgarity is just second nature to me even when I'm not mad (and I wouldn't even classify this as very mad). That's basically the language I'd use to call out his jerk persona if I encountered someone like that in real life. And I guess I have a higher opinion of Batman than some I guess because I don't think it's in character for him to act like that, to overcompensate by puffing his chest up and being a jerk to people. He's a good person at his core and has nothing to prove.

And lol "claim." Seriously? Fans on here bitch about stuff they hate more than they love all the time, there is simply just more to talk about. Ascended loves Superman but posts a lot about how frustrated the character's writing makes him or how things can improve (no shade; I almost always agree with him). If you want proof, I can post pictures of all the Bat-related books and DVDs on my shelf and T-shirts

And if we're talking constant stream of negativity posts....why have a signature that bashes the Bat-Family so it's always present? I don't view that as being helpful to minimize these discussions.

Also as The Darknight Detective said just because YOU and others think modern Batman is some irredeemable evil monster doesn't mean everyone does. He's more popular than he's ever been even when he was a lot nicer in the Golden and Silver Ages. He must not be that unlikable if he's at the peak of his popularity and is by far DC's most popular hero.

Of course, most of his popularity comes from his own content where he doesn't interact with other heroes. The Nolan trilogy played a HUGE role in giving him the boost of being the most popular superhero IP DC has, and I'd like to point out it involved a Batman who was relatively more stable than the comic version. So this other media content where he doesn't act like a monster towards other heroes is making him popular kind of proves my point that it's all unnecessary.

[The Kid]

Of course, most of his popularity comes from his own content where he doesn't interact with other heroes. The Nolan trilogy played a HUGE role in giving him the boost of being the most popular superhero IP DC has, and I'd like to point out it involved a Batman who was relatively more stable than the comic version. So this other media content where he doesn't act like a monster towards other heroes is making him popular kind of proves my point that it's all unnecessary.

This is one of the more frustrating factors to me. The biggest Batman projects of the last 15 years feature a pretty stable, kind, and dare I say it funny Bruce compared to how he has been in the comics. I guess writers feel the need to overcompensate when they have him interact with other DC characters which is really frustrating

[Ascended]

Ascended loves Superman but posts a lot about how frustrated the character's writing makes him or how things can improve (no shade; I almost always agree with him).

Hey that's me!

Yeah man, I love what I love but I try not to let that blind me to the problems. DC has screwed the pooch with Superman a lot, but really in a way they have with Bruce too. Sure, Bats has overtaken Clark as DC's most profitable IP, he's easy to write and creators and fans both love him. But the price has been high. They turned Bruce into the world's greatest villain, who's greatest trick was convincing everyone, including himself, that he's the hero. Which would be a really gods damn cool idea....if it were being done intentionally. And I celebrate Bruce's success, but DC's fanwanking makes it real difficult to root for the guy sometimes, he's got the deck stacked in his favor, to the detriment of everyone else, to such a big degree.

To DC's credit, I do feel like the last few years have been better. Bruce isn't as much of a emotionally stunted, abusive a-hole these days, and I appreciate the hell out of that.

Bronze Age Batman is best Batman.