Batman only makes sense in the Justice League if...?

[Lee Stone]

Another reason why I don't think Batman should be on the Justice League is that for a man who is supposed to be so obsessed with stopping all crime in Gotham, and doesn't come out in the daytime and therefore would probably need to rest as much as possible in the daytime, how on Earth does he have time to be hanging out with the Justice League in any great capacity?

This is the same guy who sometimes will not accept or does not want help from his allies who live in Gotham, which leaves even more work for him to do in Gotham, yet he has time to leave Gotham and let the police handle things crime-wise while he is out of town to be with the Justice League as much as he is.

I think that back in the old days, we really didn't think about heroes needing to fit in their solo stories with their JLA stories.
With only one JLA issue a month, readers were able to fit the heroes in logically. Batman and Superman appeared in about four titles each a month, but we still managed to hand wave it and not care. They just had to go to the other dimension and fight the multi-dimensional tyrant in-between their solo books.
Of course, continuity wasn't so tight back then. Stories with beginnings and endings could be slotted wherever a reader wanted, as long as appearances lined up.
Today, it would be harder because issue x leads into issue y, and issue y leads into issue z.
When you have four titles that don't have clear breaks between stories, where would they have the time to go on a two issue jaunt into space or other dimensions?

[The True Detective]

RobinGod and NightGod are not things because Robin and Nightwing aren't depicted with the same bullshit levels of plot armor as their boss. He's more high profile and is on the more high profile team and has the most high profile example (Tower of Babel), so that catches all their attention. Nightwing on the Titans has one definitive stretch of stories (NTT) where he wasn't NightGod, and if he approaches that anywhere else, people don't read it as much as those old Titans issues or any of the Batman in JL stories. So if Batman is the brand, he catches the most heat because how he is used shapes how his family members are going to be used.

And I agree that the basic talking point of "Batman doesn't contribute to the team" is very stupid, and we probably have BatGod as backlash to that to overcompensate. I honestly don't know if Green Arrow fell under that same scrutiny back before Bat-God emerged. The only answer I can think of is that even back then, Batman was much more popular so maybe he always came to mind first when the question was asked?

Popularity plays a part in it but that only makes it seem like the people who complain about Batman do it out of some form of jealousy. Captain America is essentially his counterpart in the Avengers and while he's not as popular as Batman he's still a very popular A-list character. From what I've seen Marvel fans accept a guy on super steroids being the boss on teams with literal Gods, giant rage monsters, billionaires in hi-tech super suits, etc.

That's my issue, not that there aren't valid criticisms to how Batman can sometimes be portrayed on the JL but that I know people are using those valid criticisms as as an excuse to attack a character they don't like. It's not that someone without powers hanging with supers pisses them off, it's the fact that Batman, a character they hate, is doing it. That's so petty that so many hold such a grudge against a fictional character they're willing to crucify them (Batman) for doing something they give others a pass to (Cap, Lex, GA, Hawkeye, etc)

We've seen how much hate he gets on this site alone, even on his own sub forum so any little flaw he has that can be attacked will.

[Agent Z]

Popularity plays a part in it but that only makes it seem like the people who complain about Batman do it out of some form of jealousy. Captain America is essentially his counterpart in the Avengers and while he's not as popular as Batman he's still a very popular A-list character. From what I've seen Marvel fans accept a guy on super steroids being the boss on teams with literal Gods, giant rage monsters, billionaires in hi-tech super suits, etc.

That's my issue, not that there aren't valid criticisms to how Batman can sometimes be portrayed on the JL but that I know people are using those valid criticisms as as an excuse to attack a character they don't like. It's not that someone without powers hanging with supers pisses them off, it's the fact that Batman, a character they hate, is doing it. That's so petty that so many hold such a grudge against a fictional character they're willing to crucify them (Batman) for doing something they give others a pass to (Cap, Lex, GA, Hawkeye, etc)

We've seen how much hate he gets on this site alone, even on his own sub forum so any little flaw he has that can be attacked will.

I think you are confused about what it is people dislike about Batgod. It isn't simply him being on a team with superheroes.

[Baron of Faltine]

Popularity plays a part in it but that only makes it seem like the people who complain about Batman do it out of some form of jealousy. Captain America is essentially his counterpart in the Avengers and while he's not as popular as Batman he's still a very popular A-list character. From what I've seen Marvel fans accept a guy on super steroids being the boss on teams with literal Gods, giant rage monsters, billionaires in hi-tech super suits, etc.

That's my issue, not that there aren't valid criticisms to how Batman can sometimes be portrayed on the JL but that I know people are using those valid criticisms as as an excuse to attack a character they don't like. It's not that someone without powers hanging with supers pisses them off, it's the fact that Batman, a character they hate, is doing it. That's so petty that so many hold such a grudge against a fictional character they're willing to crucify them (Batman) for doing something they give others a pass to (Cap, Lex, GA, Hawkeye, etc)

We've seen how much hate he gets on this site alone, even on his own sub forum so any little flaw he has that can be attacked will.

To be perfectly honest, Cap abilities have been often portrayed as being borderline superhuman as the supersoldier serum did not boosted just all his physical attributes to a vague undefined peak of human performance but also his mental attributes as well, and then his shield. Also he does not get tired, ever. Is an odd thing all his official descriptors agree, cards, marvels who s who, wiki. The more you know.
Better comparison would be Hawkeye who is the butt of the joke since the first avenger movie. Really you could build the tajimahal with all Hawkeye is useless jokes. (On side note have anyone ever realised how weird is the fact that there are not a fictionaluniverse without a "sniper" person with an archaic weapon. Way more than sword wielding guys, except in fantasy setting and even there they weirdly are very considerate and mutilate very little....kind of odd.

[The True Detective]

I think you are confused about what it is people dislike about Batgod. It isn't simply him being on a team with superheroes.

This thread is literally questioning his usefulness, to quote the OP: He bank roles the team and he’s the behind the scenes planning guy. Any role that has him fighting side by side with demigods is silly.

The fact that he a mere human is on the JL is considered stupid and unrealistic, BvS was mocked as unrealistic even though Superman's archenemy is basically an evil Batman and no one blinks an eye when he takes on Superman. I can't count how many times I've heard how Superman could zap Batman with his HV far away to win if this was real life. When Superman Returns came out I saw this premise used against Lex way less.

Yes, people hate BatGod for making others look bad but lots of characters get creatorwank and plot armor that makes others look bad too. If there's a high profile normal human on a team with superhumans you can guarantee the latter will be nerfed or made to look stupid to prop up the former. Batman isn't the only one who benefits from that.

This thread is specifically about him providing no use to the JL tho so BatGod really has nothing to do with it anyway. The OP's opinion is a guy with no powers fighting alongside Gods is silly despite him not being the only regular human who does that. He's just the one the OP chose to single out.

[Buried Alien]

When I was a kid in the late 70s and early 80s watching SUPERFRIENDS on TV with my dad, my dad would ask, "What the heck does Batman (and Robin) contribute to a team that has Superman and Wonder Woman and those others with powers?" It was a good question that I couldn't answer, but I never wanted to. Batman (and Robin) simply *belonged* there. I never felt he was useless or expendable on the team, though the other heroes obviously had much greater physical capabilities.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Jim Kelly]

Reading old letter columns, you can see that this kind of questioning was always going on. But maybe asking those questions--and more importantly trying to answer them in the comics--is what destroys the team dynamic. Writers start to come up with justifications why this one or that one belongs on the team--you get power creep. Or they decide this character doesn't belong for the same reasons. I hated to see that happen in the comics.

My conclusion that they just like each other is the best justification for them being together. It's not a hockey team where you pick the best players. It's a family--a group of friends--a band. They work together because they like each other. When these questions start to invade the team, that's when they start to fight with each other and hate each other. I don't want to see that.

[TheBlackTerror]

When I was a kid in the late 70s and early 80s watching SUPERFRIENDS on TV with my dad, my dad would ask, "What the heck does Batman (and Robin) contribute to a team that has Superman and Wonder Woman and those others with powers?" It was a good question that I couldn't answer, but I never wanted to. Batman (and Robin) simply *belonged* there. I never felt he was useless or expendable on the team, though the other heroes obviously had much greater physical capabilities.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

The reason why they belonged is answered in the Intro to the 1973 Superfriends cartoon, "In the great Hall of the Justice League there are assembled the world's four greatest heroes" Batman (and Robin) belong because of their very iconic nature
Yes this a meta reason why Batman should be in the JLA, but in the end--at least starting regularly in the Satellite era--that was the only reason many fans needed. And I would argue there are 60 years of comics that show just how useful the "non-powered"
Members of the JLA could be. As others have noted its just down to the writing

[JackDaw]

I think you are confused about what it is people dislike about Batgod. It isn't simply him being on a team with superheroes.

Yes.

In reality, there are very, very few Batman haters around….but a good chunk of people that like (or love) some versions of the character, but dislike (or apathetic) to other versions.

In you look at the way he’s been written over the years, the only constant has been his name, that he’s usually Bruce Wayne, the costume, and a smattering of other trappings such as the cave.

In terms of character…defined as personality…he’s been a completely different guy from era to era, or even in the same era in different types of story.

Oh…and it’s very easy to make practically any form of Batman as relevant to the League without writing him as Batgod.

Simply write him as the affable and friendly guy (to his allies) and worlds best detective as he was written decades ago…and he’s still relevant, because BEFORE the more powerful Leaguers fight some threats Bats needs to investigate what’s actually happening.

[Jim Kelly]

It's literally in the title of the cartoon show--SUPERFRIENDS.

For me, Batman is the worst example of power creep. What gives his stories some sense of jeopardy is that he's vulnerable. Yet, in order to justify his existence, writers have given him so much plot armour that he's the least likely to get hurt.

I like it when Batman isn't prepared, when he doesn't know whodunnit, when a thug like the Hooded Hangman can beat him to a pulp. Sure, he's Batman, so he's never really going to die in a way that sticks--but he should suffer and sweat.

[RobinGA]

I think we see a lot of dumping on Batman on this site.
That mainly seems because other heroes people like aren't as popular.
People are really into Batman, we might as well admit it.
Batman is one of the founding members of the JLA, he is going to be there forever.
I mean it makes no sense at all to have the JLA without the trinity.
You can engage in all the debates about justification, but the truth is when filling out the JLA lineup
they started with Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, then everyone else.

As for what Batman brings to the team it is intelligence, along with being the glue that
keeps everyone together. That is not a role that is just with him of course: Superman and Wonder
Woman perform the same function. I think of the JLA as like a baseball team. Not everyone brings
the same talents, but some of he less superhuman members weren't there it wouldn't work.

[MoneySpider]

I think we see a lot of dumping on Batman on this site.
That mainly seems because other heroes people like aren't as popular.
People are really into Batman, we might as well admit it.
Batman is one of the founding members of the JLA, he is going to be there forever.
I mean it makes no sense at all to have the JLA without the trinity.
You can engage in all the debates about justification, but the truth is when filling out the JLA lineup
they started with Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, then everyone else.

As for what Batman brings to the team it is intelligence, along with being the glue that
keeps everyone together. That is not a role that is just with him of course: Superman and Wonder
Woman perform the same function. I think of the JLA as like a baseball team. Not everyone brings
the same talents, but some of he less superhuman members weren't there it wouldn't work.

Yeah, Batman is extremely intelligent, but him being IN THE FIELD fighting alongside powerful heavy-hitter members of the Justice League against a threat like Darkseid or Doomsday doesn't make much sense to me. I think Batman can help the Justice League in other ways, just not on the battlefield when they go up against huge threats where powers are beneficial.

And when I watch some of those animated DC movies and Batman is with the Justice League, it seems like all Batman does is throw an exploding/electrical batarang at an opponent and then swings away. How many times can that happen before it just becomes redundant? (Rhetorical question). What happens when he runs out of batarangs? He'd have to resort to hand to hand.

And I would raise the same questions when it comes to Green Arrow (what happens when he runs out of arrows?), Nightwing, The Question, or any other non-powered hero on the Justice League in the field. Although I'm not sure about Mr. Terrific, since his T-Spheres seem to offer him some level of protection, I think.

I believe someone earlier in this thread mentioned Batman using some sort of armor or power suit; that could work in the field if it was powerful enough to keep him safe while being able to withstand multiple devastating hits and was able to knock Darkseid, Doomsday or whomever around.

[phonogram12]

I mean, is Batman swinging and throwing Batarangs any more redundant than the Flash running or WW using her lasso?

[Gaius]

Feels like this thread topic comes up every quarter of the year or so. Surely we all know the real answer is generally the JL is team of DC's bigwigs altogether and Batman is the biggest of bigwigs, so that's why he's on the team?

This feels like just a tier-below the gotcha question "Why doesn't Batman throw his money at Gotham's problems/Superman overthrow generic dictator?"

[MoneySpider]

I mean, is Batman swinging and throwing Batarangs any more redundant than the Flash running or WW using her lasso?

The Flash can do a lot more than just run fast, though, like phasing through walls or whatever and having the ability to vibrate his hand through someone's chest if he wanted to, or traveling through time and whatever else his speed powers allow him to do. Wonder Woman has many more abilities than using her lasso because they have POWERS. To me, that is not the same level of redundancy as Batman using his batarangs or Green Arrow using his arrows to defeat Justice League enemies, because that is just about all they have to fight with (aside from hand-to-hand moves).

And again, the equipment RUNS OUT at a certain point. You can't say the same for Flash's and Wonder Woman's "redundant" moves.