Batman only makes sense in the Justice League if...?

[John Venus]

He doesn't even bank roll the team...that's one of the biggest misconceptions I see on youtube and facebook from "casuals".

I thought the post-crisis JLA run from 97-2006 showed a great way of representing how Batman works in a team. He was important, but didn't overshadow people in most of the stories.

It was 'Tower of Babel' from that era that elevated him to Bat God status in the fandom though.

[SecretWarrior]

With the right tech, he’s be as dangerous as the MCU’s baseline humans, like Falcon, Black Widow, or Hawkeye. His power armor is probably about as strong as an early Iron Man model, minus the guns. The Batwing or a Bat Satellite could provide aerial or orbital bombardment. He can also do things like use tech to summon bats. Paired with the element of surprise, he could play a decent support role, next to the equivalents of MCU Thor, Iron Man, Hulk, or Quicksilver. A Batman with the tech I listed could be as effective as MCU Cap, though perhaps not as resilient or quick to recover from injury.

His detective, hacking, and other information-gathering ability is useful in the parts of the story that don’t involve punching aliens, robots, or demons. That’s helpful when going up against secret organizations like Cadmus.

Batman is always going to be an audience draw too.

[SecretWarrior]

[exile001]

It was 'Tower of Babel' from that era that elevated him to Bat God status in the fandom though.

Much as I love Morrison's JLA, he started it right from the first arc. From "Gadget worked" as a little joke as to how Superman couldn't detect him in the Watchtower to his taking out THREE white Martians single handed armed only with some gas, a match and the ability to hold his breath longer than creatures who come from an atmosphere without oxygen (I kinda joke, I think DC's Mars did have oxygen).

Sure, a lot of following writers got the wrong idea from Morrison's run and read it as Batman is singly better than the whole JLA, but it was Morrison who created and popularised Bat-God as we've come to know and loathe him.

[SiegePerilous02]

I think Morrison toned it down a bit after that first arc, which was a too OTT. Their Batman wasn't infallible in that run considering he almost played right into the Key's hands in the following arc and it was Connor Hawke with a basic boxing glove arrow that saved the day.

I guess Morrison laid the groundwork, but I think Waid with Babel and the DCAU took it to absurd directions and those probably shoulder more of the blame for obnoxious Bat-God

[Superfan90]

I think Morrison toned it down a bit after that first arc, which was a too OTT. Their Batman wasn't infallible in that run considering he almost played right into the Key's hands in the following arc and it was Connor Hawke with a basic boxing glove arrow that saved the day.

I guess Morrison laid the groundwork, but I think Waid with Babel and the DCAU took it to absurd directions and those probably shoulder more of the blame for obnoxious Bat-God

Not to mention Prometheus kicked the crap out of him.

[Jim Kelly]

I grew up in the time of letter columns. And when letter writers pointed out blunders and quandaries, the best of them also offered solutions which explained that these weren't mistakes really. I think the editor admired those letters most and thus was more likely to publish them (they were the kind of letters most likely to win no-prizes and baldies).

So whenever I had a problem with a story, I didn't just reject it as stupid--I knew I had to explain it. Certainly there have been some iterations of Batman that are a better fit for team-ups than others--but I accept that it's my job as a fan to explain all stories, not cherry pick. Really, if the writers wasted their time explaining why it's this way in one story and another way in a different story, they would have no time to write good stories. The fan is supposed to interact with the comic and not just sit back and expect the comic book to do all the work.

The idea that Bruce Wayne bankrolls the team doesn't really explain why Batman has to be on the team. With the modern Batman, I'd expect Bruce Wayne to bankroll the team through a shell company--but keep out of it as Batman. He would monitor them remotely--maybe put someone in there to see it to it that the operation is running smoothly, but he wouldn't want to get his gloves dirty by associating directly with the Justice League.

Also, isn't Batman an illegal? His participation on the team would compromise their standing with the U.S.A. and the U.N. So I guess you would have to give the J.L.A. some kind of diplomatic immunity.

I am reading Spirit Sections from the early 1940s these days--and it's wartime, so the Spirit is working with the O.S.S. on the one hand and yet is still considered an outlaw in Central City. I'm having a real problem explaining to myself how that works. I guess, because he's a secret agent, he's illegal on paper--but under the table he has special status.

The Satellite League had their space station built with Thanagarian and Kryptonian technology. Why would they need Bruce Wayne's money? Superman can dig up all the gold and manufacture all the diamonds they need to bankroll the team. For their own independence, they would probably not take corporate money. They can make their own wealth.

The best iteration of Batman is a social animal. He lost his parents and has empathy for others who have gone through similar tragedies--of which there are many on the Justice League. So he hangs out with them because he likes them.

[Alan2099]

Why have Batman bank roll the team when you can just have Aquaman show up with a treasure chest full of sunken pirates gold whenever they need money, or have Superman take some coal in his hands and start making diamonds?

[SecretWarrior]

Why have Batman bank roll the team when you can just have Aquaman show up with a treasure chest full of sunken pirates gold whenever they need money, or have Superman take some coal in his hands and start making diamonds?

Economic deflation?

[SecretWarrior]

Also, isn't Batman an illegal?

The League is most interesting when there's tension with the government. Bring back President Luthor!

[LifeIsILL]

Why have Batman bank roll the team when you can just have Aquaman show up with a treasure chest full of sunken pirates gold whenever they need money, or have Superman take some coal in his hands and start making diamonds?

He did...Aquaman funded the watchtower...at least that was the post-crisis version. At least there was proof of that. But for some reason everyone just automatically thinks it was Batman even though it hasn't ever been outright stated in the comics.

Much as I love Morrison's JLA, he started it right from the first arc. From "Gadget worked" as a little joke as to how Superman couldn't detect him in the Watchtower to his taking out THREE white Martians single handed armed only with some gas, a match and the ability to hold his breath longer than creatures who come from an atmosphere without oxygen (I kinda joke, I think DC's Mars did have oxygen).

I guess Morrison laid the groundwork, but I think Waid with Babel and the DCAU took it to absurd directions and those probably shoulder more of the blame for obnoxious Bat-God

Waid actually wrote another story later where the White Martians came back, outsmarted Batman, made him look like a fool and kidnapped him.....buuuuuut no one has ever heard of that story for some odd reason. ��

[Stanlos]

Batman in reality should always feel insecure about hanging with superhumans but conversely it's shown they are nervous hanging around him which is twistedly humorous. Kind of silly really that a human in Dracula lite costume scares the crap out of the rest of the crowd who can turn him into a smear even without trying.

I really don't buy the likes of Supes, Diana, Jonn, Kimiyo, and Arthur being nervous around Bats. Perhaps the Flashes and the Hal or Guy Green Lantern. The best I have seen Batman in the League handled well is by Giffen/DeMatteis, Mark Waid's various one shots during the Morrison run, and Joe Kelly. They managed to give Bats his cool moments without making the rest of the team job for him

[John Venus]

TBF, Martian Manhunter alone makes most of the League redundant. He has flight, super strength, telepathic powers, can turn invisible and a Martian vision. But he has to be toned down so other League members can be useful.

[Vic Vega]

I remember Batman bankrolled the team in The Batman cartoon from the 90's. The one where Joker looks kinda like a Rastafarian.

Maybe that cartoon popularized that particular idea among people who don't read the comics.

That and people assuming the Justice League works like The Avengers (where Tony Stark does bankroll the team in nearly all media featuring the Avengers).

In the Silver and Bronze Age Batman was the "Detective guy". The baddies would leave weird clues and Batman was usually the only guy there who could figure out what the clues meant. So the League needed him around back then (even though the JLA had several detective types on its roster).

[The True Detective]

Again I have to ask why out of all the regular humans on superhero teams is Batman's usefulness singled out and questioned so much? There aren't threads like this for Black Widow and Hawkeye in the Marvel forum. Or the various Batfamily members on different teams. What does someone like Green Arrow provide to the League? Does he bring anything to the table that Bruce doesn't already bring?

I get no one wants "Batgod" around making others look bad but there can be a happy medium. Sure he can be off field giving instructions to other heroes but most people don't want to see that. What's visually exciting about seeing someone sitting down and giving orders? Fans want to see him getting physical and fighting so the "he doesn't need to be in the battles" arguments don't work.

If we want to be super realistic only the top 1% of the most powerful JL members are really needed anyway. Even if they do have powers what can the likes of Aquaman really offer that Superman or Martian Manhunter don't?