X-Men '97: The Animated Series

[Godzilla2099]

Beginning of the episode, I had "ugh" at some scenes.

-Logan pines after Jean for 6 seasons but now that she kisses him, he denies? Gtfoh. Same sh*t as the comics. Wolverine has be holier than thou when needed, ignoring all his previous characterization.

-"psychic rapport was our thing!" Well, kissing was also only yours and Scott's thing, but who dares calling Jean on her hypocrisy? Just like the comics.

-Rogneto. Ugh. But I like Rogue came clean about that and didn't hide it anymore.

-Rest of the episode though? 10/10.

-Action is fantastic. And just the perfect amount of violance and gore. Not too much and not too censored.

-Magneto relly talks amazingly.

-Scott's frustration. Damm. They're nailing his characterization.

If this Forum had a Like Button...

My thoughts exactly

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

I'm glad they're actually adapting some of the newer stuff instead of just sticking with Claremont/90's. Makes me hopeful for the Dark Angel Saga.

Dope as it was, Dark Angel was an X-force thing. I don't think any X-men series has ever adapted a story that wasn't from the main book. Nothing from Exiles, Excalibur, Factor or Force. Even if they do a Stryfe arc, that'll only be because of X-cutioner's song.

[PhoenixStudies]

Gambit sacrificing himself to take down an enemy and save Rogue (and this time, many others) is from Ultimate X-Men Annual #1.

He’s even in a suit, with Rogue in a red dress, as she cradles his body in the rubble.



There’s at least ten or so different Gambit/Rogue and Rogue/Magneto (…and Rogue/Joseph) beats they’ve drawn from so far this season. Despite my hatred of that triangle, the deep cuts have been actually pretty impressive lmao.

Oooh. Thanks for that! I'll have to check that story out!

[Havok83]

Dope as it was, Dark Angel was an X-force thing. I don't think any X-men series has ever adapted a story that wasn't from the main book. Nothing from Exiles, Excalibur, Factor or Force. Even if they do a Stryfe arc, that'll only be because of X-cutioner's song.

TAS adapted the X-terminators (Boom Boom, Wiz Kid, etc...) and that was from X-Terminators/X-Factor. It also adapted Beauty and the Beast

Speaking of which the Archangel stuff with Apocalypse also came from X-Factor, not the main series. Endgame was partially adapted in Episode 3 of this series and that was an X-Factor plot

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

TAS adapted the X-terminators (Boom Boom, Wiz Kid, etc...) and that was from X-Terminators/X-Factor.

Speaking of which the Archangel stuff with Apocalypse also came from X-Factor, not the main series. Endgame was partially adapted in Episode 3 of this series and that was an X-Factor plot

Whoops! I stand corrected.

[ExodusCloak]

Tell me you hated this episode without saying you hated this episode!

Did you really not enjoy any of this? I was crying by the end.

Genuinely disliked everything but the Rogue and Gambit bit but doing it this way was certainly a choice.

[Havok83]

Whoops! I stand corrected.

No prob. Most of the plots came from the main series bc thats where most of the OG cast were written but Scott and Jean were written in other books for large chunks of the 80s so there was material to mine from there. And now with so many of the cast having also been on other teams, I think it will be easier to bring in some of those plot element into this show

[Askani's Flame]

Hi, Rachel fan here. I get that some comics fans (Lorna in the case of this episode) might not like alterations to stories we loved in the comics especially those are inherent to our favorite characters. But X-Men TAS and X-Men '97 are not and will never be the means of a faithfully retelling of classic stories and events in a new medium. It's just the truth and anyone is welcome to be critical of the show for a myriad of reasons, but faithful retelling shouldn't be one in a different universe. Otherwise I could be enraged that all of Rachel's storyline in TAS and '97 were given to Bishop. Or the core elements of her hound background were given to others in TAS and The Gifted. Or Kitty in DoFP the movie. I can choose to be mad and not enjoy the other parts that are brilliant, or be vocally disappointed but still excited to see these stories coming to life and the impact it's having.

Our fandom can really be so messy.

The way the internet regularly erupts over the inaccuracies from the printed source material is fully wild. What this show manages to achieve in 30ish minutes of animation -- the humor, the cameos and history winks, the emotional gravitas --- while drawing inspiration from titillating stories we love and already know ---some of us like the back of our hand-- and yet still folks refuse to find the fun.

From episode one, folks across social media bemoaned Roberto's inclusion as the, forgive the pun, new mutant. "Where are the OTHER New Mutants?? Where are Sam and Dani and and?? This isn't how or when he joined!!"
We get these delightfully unexpected appearances of Colossus, Archangel and Psylocke by way of Morph, and the internet devolves into "But now they won't have a storyline!! How can this be???"
Real ones who know get a charming tip of the hat by Illyana's surprise cameo during the Inferno inspired episode and rather than find amusement, people opt to put their lawyer hats on(???) and argue "But how can she even be??? And a teenager?? How can Morph even know her???"

It. Is. Not. That. Serious.

This is not the printed books. This is not "our canon". Practically nothing in this show is accurate to the books its drawing inspiration from. The same can be said for the movies, for the MCU in general, and inevitably for any future big screen depictions.
This is just a cartoon meant to entertain. But folks are gonna gnash their teeth and smash their keyboards. The impulse to wrap one's self in misery while sipping on a cup of hot fury is so bewildering. As if life isn't challenging enough.

This episode was bananas. I cried. That's powerful ****. Bravo, X-Men97. You're doing the most, to say the least.

This all day.

[Nox Noctes]

We have to be real. They're not going to leave Gambit and Magneto dead. Half of the female fandom would burn down Disneyland overnight, and the other half would hunt Kevin Fiege down like a fox in England.

I would do this for Gambit, yes.

[Purplevit]

Music was phenomenal in this episode. Everything is just perfect.

[Havok83]

Hi, Rachel fan here. I get that some comics fans (Lorna in the case of this episode)

LOL...there's a certain Lorna fan thats gonna have some words for this episode

[Felipe Silveira]

The retcon was terrible, and the drama didn't do much for Rogue. Gambit was badass in the end, but I don't know if all the cuckolding was worth it.

[WhitePhoenix]

Since we saw Maddie had a red (Sinister) diamond on her forehead in previous episodes, what if she went full on red diamond (a’la Emma Frost’s diamond form) on Genosha?

[Alex.]

Since we saw Maddie had a red (Sinister) diamond on her forehead in previous episodes, what if she went full on red diamond (a’la Emma Frost’s diamond form) on Genosha?

I've seen people mentioning this, but I guess it would make living in the mansion with her original quite complicated. And also, for what? All the interesting bits between Emma and Scott during Morrison are already here in this episode. Unless they want Maddie to make snark comments towards others, but that's ooc and Emma is already doing that better.

[salarta]

Given Polaris wasn't in the original comic story and all the Lorna stuff was retcon, I don't understand why you would assume she wouldn't have a flashback later, like in the comics.

In the original comics, Lorna was active on Genosha prior to the genocide. Readers saw her doing things there. I would have expected to at least see her present in the area if they had to limit content for time and save acknowledging her experience for later.

That they felt the need to tease her having been on 90s X-Factor in opening credits of the previous episode (despite having a reminder through the photo Forge has during the episode itself), but didn't do something similar to show Lorna present on Genosha, tells us what to expect.

Also I see ExodusCloak's post and agree with it. Cartoon sucks and perhaps goes a long way to explain for me why I never got into it back in the 90s but got into DC content. If this is a reflection of the X-Men cartoon in the 90s, then it's a good thing I never watched it.

It would have been weird for lorna to just show up out of no where when she has never been that major in the series and all of a sudden we are seeing this through her view. Like who would care. Love me some lorna but it would not have had the impact if it was her. JMO.

What I'm about to say is not a personal attack. It's response mixed with some frustration with past experiences dealing with this kind of thinking.

This feels very much comes across to me as making excuses for bad decisions. It very much reminds me of the issue of P-30 in Resident Evil 5. The game screwed Jill Valentine over at the end (didn't let her get any kind of catharsis for having been controlled but aware as her body was used to commit atrocities and kill allies for 2 years, as well as create the new virus), the dev team used the excuse of P-30 wearing her out too much to join in the final fight. Uncritical fans of Capcom and the franchise went on to say the dev team's excuse because that's just how P-30 works... as if that same dev team hadn't created P-30 specifically for RE5 and had no control over how it works or anything in the narrative.

We have the same situation here. The team behind this cartoon had control over the narrative. They made a deliberate, conscious choice to shape the narrative this way, to use or not use certain characters. Not only that, they went against the comics to do it. They don't even have precedence and source material on their side.

Fans eager to cheerlead this cartoon say to appreciate the franchise as a whole, but frankly not even the people making this cartoon respect it, otherwise they would've acknowledged and used Lorna and Emma and their experiences instead of being colossal tools.

For what it's worth, Lorna's Genosha story was already adapted in Wolverine and the X-Men.

It was, but that's a decade and a half ago, the cartoon was killed by the Disney buyout so it didn't get to actually do all it should have, and that's kinda like saying origin stories of Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, etc only needed to be told in a single movie and then never touched again. Even if that's a personal view, it's clearly not the view whenever a new movie, cartoon, etc is made with them.

It. Is. Not. That. Serious.

Actually, it is. People resonate with things like the Genoshan genocide and characters who we see these things through. Disregarding such things is disrespectful, especially when it would be extremely easy to acknowledge those elements.

You say later in your post that the cartoon is there simply to entertain and be "fun." If that's all it is, then they shouldn't have touched on the Genoshan genocide and shouldn't try to do anything deeper than good guys punching bad guys. Way too much seriousness and emotional gravity for this cartoon. And now that I think about it, if the people making this cartoon can't be respectful enough to characters like Lorna and Emma in the midst of this? Then maybe we're both right. Maybe it's just for fun, and maybe the cartoon should stop trying to be deep and stick to the shallow fare it's better for.

LOL...there's a certain Lorna fan thats gonna have some words for this episode

I've been here. If Askani's Flame wants to let Rachel and what she offers suffer by not sticking up for the character when she gets screwed over, then so be it. I'm not built that way.