X-Men '97: The Animated Series

[marhawkman]

It's perhaps too late for an effective adaptation of that storyline now.

At least in regard to expecting a reaction and reception comparable to the one the comic readership had at the time.

After all the wider audience has now been introduced and given a much more detailed and personal version of the destruction of Genosha, that any similar event from now on will be compared to.

To put this in perspective.
In the comics Genosha was around 5 or 6 pages of things happening with a very distant viewpoint (2 pages of a class room, one splash page of a Time Square stand in getting shot at, then just a distant view of the island and some narration) and then it was all over and the heros were standing around in the aftermath. It was like half of ONE issue.

To comical exagerate it somewhat. It was the comic version of someone in the 1980's reading the newspaper and seeing an article on page 3 about a bomb going off in a city they never heared of in a country very far away and reacting with "Oh dear." It was distant, uninvolved and allready happend by the point the reader would learn of it.

Perhaps that's why the destruction of Genosha has always existed somewhat in the shadows of the Mutant Massacre in terms of how it's remembered and regarded by the readers, despite being much bigger and dramatic in scope and death toll.

Meanwhile the Mutant Massacre itself happend "life" on pannel as multiple different books would show different perspectives over weeks, with the villains performing the massacre being actual characters, rathern than some WMD like robot, all the core heros were also personal involved in the fight and then they came back home alive but scared and essentialy defeated. It was up close and personal, with the outcome uncertain.

However in this adaptation the destruction on Genosha was given many of those qualities from the Mutant Massacre, feeling more drawn out, more personal and much closer, which likely played a vital role in why this episode has gotten all these reactions afterwards.

But this essentialy steals all of the Mutant Massacre's thunder, so to speak. Because now the wider/casual audience has the destruction of Genosha as their "many mutants are suddently and brutaly killed" event, without a predecessor it can be compared to. For them this is now the measuring stick.

Meaning if said predecessor would be put into an adaptation it would likely no longer carry the same shock and suprise for that audience as if it had come first.

WORSE, this version of the Genosha massacre KILLED OFF THE MORLOCKS instead of the Acolytes. You can't massacre someone who's already dead!

Though to be honest this barely had any emotional weight outside killing of main characters since we'd barely even seen this version of Genosha.

[jmc247]

WORSE, this version of the Genosha massacre KILLED OFF THE MORLOCKS instead of the Acolytes. You can't massacre someone who's already dead!

Though to be honest this barely had any emotional weight outside killing of main characters since we'd barely even seen this version of Genosha.

The Acolytes were really the builders and ruling class of mutant controlled Genosha in the comics and had the most stake in its success or failure yes.



That version was something darker then this. It was no Xavier-Magneto joint effort. The idea of Xavier’s statue and Magneto was one years later that Lorna built from the ashes in the comics.

Mutant controlled Genosha was very much a mutant Israel in the comics (they weren’t very coy about this if one checks the titles of issues like the image above) repleate with horrible mutant/human fighting on the island.

[marhawkman]

The Acolytes were really the builders and ruling class of mutant controlled Genosha in the comics and had the most stake in its success or failure yes.



That version was something darker then this. It was no Xavier-Magneto joint effort. The idea of Xavier’s statue and Magneto was one years later that Lorna built from the ashes in the comics.

Mutant controlled Genosha was very much a mutant Israel in the comics (they weren’t very coy about this if one checks the titles of issues like the image above) repleate with horrible mutant/human fighting on the island.

It gets weirder since... we DO have a version of the Acolytes in TAS.... but they've not been seen except a few tiny brief cameos in 97.

[Refrax5]

Did you intentionally erase from your memory the fact my primary criticism is the tiny number of people we actually SEE?

Same goes for Refrax, Zoks, and Tank.

My main criticism is just how FEW actual characters we see. We don't even see large numbers of nameless randos. there's a few actual characters tossed in so it's not just randos, but... other than the Morlock group?

It's not hard to give a sense of continuity by simply... having the same thing from last time. We SAW in TAS season 5 Magneto's start to creating his island nation of Genosha. This isn't that.

Again, I don't think there's any reason that when visiting a country for the second time that you'd see the exact same people you saw last time. If I went to Brooklyn twice in one week, I likely wouldn't see the same people. Having the same characters appearing would, if anything, make the country seem more like a small town.

This just seems like an incredibly petty nitpick.

[jmc247]

It gets weirder since... we DO have a version of the Acolytes in TAS.... but they've not been seen except a few tiny brief cameos in 97.

I think a lot of it is about shifting the metaphor for the destruction of Genosha. In the comics the death represented the death of the Acolytes dream or Mags dream for short. This they want to sell as a Magneto and Xavier’s dream of mutant-human peace and harmony.

In terms of the question of which characters are needed to tell the story of the destruction of Genosha I believe only the population and the Sentinels are really needed. No not even Magneto.

But, in terms of the question of which characters was Genosha vital for moving their story forward that was Emma and Lorna and to a lesser degree Magneto.

For Magneto it actually meant the era of him trying to lead mutants himself was at an end, but really the Holocaust was still his central story that took him out of being a poor man’s Doom and it is still his greatest story. Take away Genosha from Magneto he is still Marvel’s greatest anti-hero/anti-villian.

For Lorna it decisively took the character out of her poor man’s Jean era. The island and its destruction was much more important then the issue of her parentage there. For Emma it was the start of her A list x-woman era.

In terms of the Acolytes the destruction of Genosha in X-Men 97 is supposed to represent more the failure of Xavier’s dream then Magneto’s so it may give them a reason to return.

[Tank]

It gets weirder since... we DO have a version of the Acolytes in TAS.... but they've not been seen except a few tiny brief cameos in 97.

This is an adaptation. It’s not going to be the same. If you’re going to nitpick at these small little details that ultimately do not matter, and can obviously be seen as the country is big enough where you arent going to see the same exact background characters twice, then you’re never going to enjoy any adaption.

[marhawkman]

Again, I don't think there's any reason that when visiting a country for the second time that you'd see the exact same people you saw last time. If I went to Brooklyn twice in one week, I likely wouldn't see the same people. Having the same characters appearing would, if anything, make the country seem more like a small town.

This just seems like an incredibly petty nitpick.

Why? because the Acolytes aren't random shmucks. They're Magneto's honor guard and personal assistants. They helped Magneto make Genosha what it is. Why wouldn't they be here? TAS wasn't shy about having Acolytes talk to the X-Men. the fact this is going out of its way to hide them makes no sense.

[JThree]

You know, I'm curious to where all this will lead. So many clues (and probably red herrings), so much X-Men history to draw from; that all this is too much to process. Want to know what happens in the next remaining 5 episodes NOW, and then I have to remind myself it could possibly be a year before season 2, and a year after than season 3.

--jthree

[ChildOfTheAtom]

Again, I don't think there's any reason that when visiting a country for the second time that you'd see the exact same people you saw last time. If I went to Brooklyn twice in one week, I likely wouldn't see the same people. Having the same characters appearing would, if anything, make the country seem more like a small town.

This just seems like an incredibly petty nitpick.

This is an adaptation. It’s not going to be the same. If you’re going to nitpick at these small little details that ultimately do not matter, and can obviously be seen as the country is big enough where you arent going to see the same exact background characters twice, then you’re never going to enjoy any adaption.

well if i knew everyone was going to die id rather the acolytes and polaris were there instead of ppl like banshee, dazzler, & moira (rip)

You know, I'm curious to where all this will lead. So many clues (and probably red herrings), so much X-Men history to draw from; that all this is too much to process. Want to know what happens in the next remaining 5 episodes NOW, and then I have to remind myself it could possibly be a year before season 2, and a year after than season 3.

--jthree

X-MEN split in two… Magneto & Cyclops team… Xavier & Storm’s team not a civil war or anything basically a blue/gold type thing with two different ideals imo

[marhawkman]

I think a lot of it is about shifting the metaphor for the destruction of Genosha. In the comics the death represented the death of the Acolytes dream or Mags dream for short. This they want to sell as a Magneto and Xavier’s dream of mutant-human peace and harmony.

In terms of the question of which characters are needed to tell the story of the destruction of Genosha I believe only the population and the Sentinels are really needed. No not even Magneto.

But, in terms of the question of which characters was Genosha vital for moving their story forward that was Emma and Lorna and to a lesser degree Magneto.

For Magneto it actually meant the era of him trying to lead mutants himself was at an end, but really the Holocaust was still his central story that took him out of being a poor man’s Doom and it is still his greatest story. Take away Genosha from Magneto he is still Marvel’s greatest anti-hero/anti-villian.

For Lorna it decisively took the character out of her poor man’s Jean era. The island and its destruction was much more important then the issue of her parentage there. For Emma it was the start of her A list x-woman era.

In terms of the Acolytes the destruction of Genosha in X-Men 97 is supposed to represent more the failure of Xavier’s dream then Magneto’s so it may give them a reason to return.

Yeah... this feels like a weird flanderization... and I don't like that. Like having Pixie be one of the students and living on Genosha when it got attacked? Wut? That's mixing aspects of three different eras of Xmen stories. It reached the point it stops making sense. You can't rectify the old characters from the comics with TAS since it's blatantly obvious they don't have the same histories... but we have no idea what those are.

I see it as bad writing to use characters like that since you're changing a massive amount of stuff... for no obvious reason. You wanna have teen Mutants on Genosha to be tragically killed? ok.... there were plenty of those in the actual comic event... this took random later additions to use INSTEAD... why???

[ChildOfTheAtom]

That's mixing aspects of three different eras of Xmen stories. It reached the point it stops making sense. You can't rectify the old characters from the comics with TAS since it's blatantly obvious they don't have the same histories... but we have no idea what those are.

I see it as bad writing to use characters like that since you're changing a massive amount of stuff... for no obvious reason. You wanna have teen Mutants on Genosha to be tragically killed? ok.... there were plenty of those in the actual comic event... this took random later additions to use INSTEAD... why???

if this place was around in 1992… rachel grey/kitty fans would be furious about bishop lol. imagine ppl screaming about rogue/gambit/jubilee being involved in phoenix/dark phoenix.. would be polaris situation on steroids

[Alan2099]

Why? because the Acolytes aren't random shmucks. They're Magneto's honor guard and personal assistants. They helped Magneto make Genosha what it is. Why wouldn't they be here? TAS wasn't shy about having Acolytes talk to the X-Men. the fact this is going out of its way to hide them makes no sense.

The Acolytes has always been Magneto's random schmucks. They've always been treated as basically Magnetos' equivalent of random AIM/HYDRA/The Hand mooks. Other than Exodus and maybe one or two others, has anybody ever really cared about the Acolytes?

[marhawkman]

if this place was around in 1992… rachel grey/kitty fans would be furious about bishop lol. imagine ppl screaming about rogue/gambit/jubilee being involved in phoenix/dark phoenix.. would be polaris situation on steroids

It was actually. People DID get upset about that.

But this is worse since... the Acolytes were already established characters who we saw as Magneto's helpers. The Rachel and Kitty thing was just simplifying the story to have less characters so they didn't have to explain who the new people were. This is leaving out characters who were already established.

[Confuzzled]

Hopefully we get Season 2 as early as next year's first half.

In other news, DeMaio confirmed Archangel survived Genosha, but Moira and Dazzler didn't.

Joke's on him. Alison can resurrect herself anytime


Bendis Reputation Era garbage bag makeover incoming

[Havok83]

Hopefully we get Season 2 as early as next year's first half.

In other news, DeMaio confirmed Archangel survived Genosha, but Moira and Dazzler didn't.

I mean considering he's been fired, his confirmations dont mean too much. The next showrunner can gloss past that especially since most of the death werent made explicit