X-Men '97: The Animated Series

[Mantis-Ray]

I remain astonished how this thread was basically hijacked by a psychotic fan for Polaris of all of characters.

Like I'm a Fantomex fan but you don't see me whining like a little baby that Charlie-Cluster isn't in this.

[salarta]

I remain astonished how this thread was basically hijacked by a psychotic fan for Polaris of all of characters.

Like I'm a Fantomex fan but you don't see me whining like a little baby that Charlie-Cluster isn't in this.

“Of all characters” pretty much says it all for me

[sallyblevins]

I remain astonished how this thread was basically hijacked by a psychotic fan for Polaris of all of characters.

Like I'm a Fantomex fan but you don't see me whining like a little baby that Charlie-Cluster isn't in this.

Totally. That “fan of Polaris” seems not to understand this is not the 616 universe.

[Zoks]

Polaris is one of many characters that is an incredibly obvious omission. Like there's DOZENS of characters just left out, and a handful who had cameos just to get killed. It makes the show less... meaningful.

If you are watching this as a comic fan hoping to see your favorite arcs adapted into animation you are looking at the wrong place. This series was never going to be faithful to the actual comic stories when it stuck Jubilee and Gambit as star members of the roster (and I say this as a fan of both of them).

[ChildOfTheAtom]

I remain astonished how this thread was basically hijacked by a psychotic fan for Polaris of all of characters.

Like I'm a Fantomex fan but you don't see me whining like a little baby that Charlie-Cluster isn't in this.

i actually thought about it though after watching YouTube reaction videos of episode 5. because of the social media aspect this is probably the biggest single episode of X-MEN in animation to date. gambit rogue magneto and the cameos are getting crazy promo right now i can see why a polaris fan would be mad. people are literally crying over gambit. this is awesome X-MEN are so back

[Grunty]

While true... this one... is... not being faithful to either the comics OR the previous 5 seasons.

Thinking about differences to the comics.

Something about Marrow's cameo in episode 5 bothered me and it wasn't getting vaporized, but rather that the way she appears even so briefly in this episode actualy robbed her of what little original comic identity and role she actualy had to beginn with.

Now to be fair.
Her comic version arguably didn't have one or the other for the past 24 years either. Since together with getting stealth kicked off the X-men in 2000, she also lost most sense of relevance, personal continuity and consistency.
Remaining as just a vague shape of a character, with none of the few writers who decided to use her over those decades, seemingly being able to agree on who she is as a person, what her personal goals are, how her backround would make her off pannel activities difficult or what ever she is a weak joke character or capable fighter to be taken serious.

However between 1995 and 1999 she had a semblance of relevance, role and identity, which could be considered her "core elements".

She begann as a lesser mutant extremist, with a violent upbringing and resulting anti-social attitude/behaviour, who via circumstances joined the X-men when they were in a dire state and as part of the team grew as a person (and then the above mentioned sudden stop and nothing since). Not much overall but that's what she got.

Meanwhile without the joining the X-men part, her most basic characterization should be the above mentioned lesser villain characterization. That's her "core".

In this regard the most fitting minor cameo in '97 would have been a lesser mutant villain or henchmen, perhaps a lieutenant with a handfull of lines if the writers are generous.

But in just 4 to 6 seconds of appearing in this episode, she is shown as apparently being well mannered and social enough to attend a fancy party in a dress, having a nice conversation with people and not even related to any kind of villian group or organization existing for the viewers yet. Which means none of her core elements are present or implied to exist here.

So who was this version of the character in this universe, considering we can't use the comics as point of reference here?

Contrast Pixie, Glob and co. who fit their original identity as young mutant teenagers/students.

So what was the point of the cameo then, if a. most viewers would not know her anyway (only comic readers and perhaps Marvel vs. Capcom 2 players), b. she didn't even have a previous happy go lucky appearance like the teenagers to make the unknowning viewer care about her and c. she didn't even match her comic versions identity?

Is it perhaps just another snide at the character by a creator who dislike her on principle or to show that even though the show is titled X-men '97, someone, who's best year in the comic was 1997, would definetly not have any role or even fitting appearance?

Nah. Just kidding.

i actually thought about it though after watching YouTube reaction videos of episode 5. because of the social media aspect this is probably the biggest single episode of X-MEN in animation to date. gambit rogue magneto and the cameos are getting crazy promo right now i can see why a polaris fan would be mad. people are literally crying over gambit. this is awesome X-MEN are so back

The show is currently quite popular for those kinds of videos.

So it definetly seems to be creating positive buzz.

[Gray Lensman]

Thinking about differences to the comics.

Something about Marrow's cameo in episode 5 bothered me and it wasn't getting vaporized, but rather that the way she appears even so briefly in this episode actualy robbed her of what little original comic identity and role she actualy had to beginn with.

Now to be fair.
Her comic version arguably didn't have one or the other for the past 24 years either. Since together with getting stealth kicked off the X-men in 2000, she also lost most sense of relevance, personal continuity and consistency.
Remaining as just a vague shape of a character, with none of the few writers who decided to use her over those decades, seemingly being able to agree on who she is as a person, what her personal goals are, how her backround would make her off pannel activities difficult or what ever she is a weak joke character or capable fighter to be taken serious.

However between 1995 and 1999 she had a semblance of relevance, role and identity, which could be considered her "core elements".

She begann as a lesser mutant extremist, with a violent upbringing and resulting anti-social attitude/behaviour, who via circumstances joined the X-men when they were in a dire state and as part of the team grew as a person (and then the above mentioned sudden stop and nothing since). Not much overall but that's what she got.

Meanwhile without the joining the X-men part, her most basic characterization should be the above mentioned lesser villain characterization. That's her "core".

In this regard the most fitting minor cameo in '97 would have been a lesser mutant villain or henchmen, perhaps a lieutenant with a handfull of lines if the writers are generous.

But in just 4 to 6 seconds of appearing in this episode, she is shown as apparently being well mannered and social enough to attend a fancy party in a dress, having a nice conversation with people and not even related to any kind of villian group or organization existing for the viewers yet. Which means none of her core elements are present or implied to exist here.

So who was this version of the character in this universe, considering we can't use the comics as point of reference here?

Contrast Pixie, Glob and co. who fit their original identity as young mutant teenagers/students.

So what was the point of the cameo then, if a. most viewers would not know her anyway (only comic readers and perhaps Marvel vs. Capcom 2 players), b. she didn't even have a previous happy go lucky appearance like the teenagers to make the unknowning viewer care about her and c. she didn't even match her comic versions identity?

Is it perhaps just another snide at the character by a creator who for some reason really dislikes the character or to show that even though the show is titled X-men '97, someone, who's best year in the comic was 1997, would definetly not have any role or even fitting appearance ("you wanna see her? Too bad. Watch her become plasma.")?

Nah. Just kidding.



The show is currently quite popular for those kinds of videos.

So it definetly seems to be creating positive buzz.

Honestly, I figure any character whose only appears in the background exists for one purpose only - to be an Easter Egg for fans who know what to look for. The writer needed people in the scene, the animators drew from a group that they knew there were no plans for, and picked Marrow. That's about it.

[Grunty]

Honestly, I figure any character whose only appears in the background exists for one purpose only - to be an Easter Egg for fans who know what to look for. The writer needed people in the scene, the animators drew from a group that they knew there were no plans for, and picked Marrow. That's about it.

Of course.

But it was fun to overanalyze the whole thing a bit.

[Gray Lensman]

If you are watching this as a comic fan hoping to see your favorite arcs adapted into animation you are looking at the wrong place. This series was never going to be faithful to the actual comic stories when it stuck Jubilee and Gambit as star members of the roster (and I say this as a fan of both of them).

Once you get into a TV show, certain rules apply. Plot elements will be reduced for time, and if characters can be combined, they will if that helps keep down the number of roles. If important story beats can be transferred to core cast, well, that happens too. If this was a live action adaptation, any character who is due to vanish for a long period of time will just not appear at all until, when, in the source material, they re-appear - because to do otherwise is to establish the actor for said character only to risk losing them due to the time between appearances. Thankfully that's one thing animation doesn't deal with.

[Zoks]

Once you get into a TV show, certain rules apply. Plot elements will be reduced for time, and if characters can be combined, they will if that helps keep down the number of roles. If important story beats can be transferred to core cast, well, that happens too. If this was a live action adaptation, any character who is due to vanish for a long period of time will just not appear at all until, when, in the source material, they re-appear - because to do otherwise is to establish the actor for said character only to risk losing them due to the time between appearances. Thankfully that's one thing animation doesn't deal with.

You raise a valid point about the restrictions due to it being a TV Show. We also have to consider Voice Actors. Maybe they didn't want to pay somebody to play Polaris so we just have her in photos.

[toddcam]

Is it bc the post I responded to mentioned that lorna wasnt in the original story so she shouldnt be here. My point is if thats the case, then most of these other characters who werent i the original story shouldnt have been either. And obviously its only inspired by the books but there really isnt a reason she couldnt have been snuck there in a cameo appearance considering there were so many cameos. Acknowledging her presence would have done alot to at least quelch some of these criticisms

If you were referring to my post, I wasn't saying Lorna shouldn't be there. My point was that to get upset that she isn't here when she wasn't in the original story either makes no sense. It would have been fine if she was there. While I've never been a fan of her being Magneto's daughter (because they have the same powers?), I have always liked the character since I first saw her in X-Factor #93, so would be happy for her to be involved, and if they retcon her into the story here, that's cool too. I don't think the character is dependent on the Genosha story, and I don't even think it's all that essential to her, but I guess if you are going to be fixated on a character like that, you are going to find any excuse to make everything about that character.

[Mantis-Ray]

Honestly, I figure any character whose only appears in the background exists for one purpose only - to be an Easter Egg for fans who know what to look for. The writer needed people in the scene, the animators drew from a group that they knew there were no plans for, and picked Marrow. That's about it.

The cameos also do help to make the world feel more lived in.

An entire nation of mutants of different nationalities, cultures, mutations, it sells the inherent diversity of the concept where anyone can look so different.

[Refrax5]

I'm not mad, don't put in the newspaper that I'm mad, etc.



I'm not concerned about how many people that post here are or aren't sympathetic because I know I'm posting on a site largely made of people who want to overlook problems and frame the majority of things with this cartoon as good.

What I bring in my posts is a counterbalance. Something that goes against the narrative that the show can do no wrong.

Regarding social media, I wasn't going to say anything, but I did see someone hype how it trended #1 on Twitter. My immediate thought was "You mean the social media platform now most associated with Nazis, sexists, Musk fanboys, etc? That platform?" That ranking on Twitter would've meant something to me before Musk got his hands on it. Other social media platforms, that ranking does mean something, but not that one.



Yes, I can see that people here have proven their double standards where they make exceptions to their own arguments when they don't like where that leads. Apply the same thinking of "the character isn't integral to the story" to Magneto, and because it's a character they like and respect more, they look for ways to argue that the same rules don't apply to Magneto as they apply to Polaris.

The arguments ultimately boil down to "Magneto is integral cause he's a household name, Polaris isn't integral cause she isn't a household name." Which, in turn, means no amount of explaining how integral Lorna was to the story of the Genoshan genocide will get through to those people. They're not basing their views on what's needed to tell this story respectfully. They're basing it on wanting to defend the cartoon.


Anyway, if Lorna's connection to Genosha does get respected in a later episode as some cartoon fans suggest, I'll apologize (and eat my non-existent hat). I know it's not going to happen, but here's my offer if it somehow does. But in the off chance it does happen, if it comes with a heaping helping of trying to hijack it mainly to promote Havolaris BS then no apology's coming.

It has nothing to do with overlooking anything or wanting to "frame it as good." I'm not overlooking Lorna's absence. It's just of no importance to me or the story. You think the story is bad because it's different from the comics, which isn't a valid criticism. Neither is being mad that your favorite isn't included. I doubt any story with Lorna, including the retcon that stated she was there, provoked such emotion from fans. I'm a huge fan of Grant Morrison and I think this vastly surpassed the comic version in terms of quality, so I consider it a good move that they did the things you're upset about.

As for Magneto or Gambit or anyone else, they're focused on because the show is about them and the rest of the main cast. The story is in service to the cast, which Lorna was never a part of. And obviously, this story is important to these versions of Magneto, Gambit and Rogue since it greatly changes them and the course of the show. Suddenly devoting time to a c list character that barely appeared in the show because the comic did it would be incredibly poor storytelling.

You don't like the choices made, so you're desperate to find a way that it's wrong or bad somehow. It's not. The reality is that they didn't focus on your personal favorite and youre making it everybody else's problem.

[Magnetic]

Polaris survive - is now floating amongst the debris of what was Genosha - they will show her derange form next.

[Gray Lensman]

Polaris survive - is now floating amongst the debris of what was Genosha - they will show her derange form next.

There is at least a small chance that she wasn't shown being killed because they actually want to do something with her later.