X-Men '97: The Animated Series

[ChildOfTheAtom]

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. Whatever happened to Senator Kelly?

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he’s president now

[whitecrown]

only bad thing about this episode is that it ended… loved that only wolverine supported rogue decision with Trask

He's the only one who showed vocal support. I'd be curious if anyone else there felt similarly as Rogue.

[whitecrown]

he’s president now

Oops, I forgot that. In hologram form, I couldn't tell it was him. I still remember the female president from the original show.

[NK1988]

I mean it is a sticky situation.

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He wasn't actively a threat - quite the contrary, he was remorseful. Does remorse undo what he's done? No, but he didn't actively even use the Sentinels for the purpose Sinister/Bastion did. Both his culpability and threat level were not really in the "Justified Kill" territory, IMO. Plus Rogue isn't thinking clearly. She tried to kill a man for nothing other than personal revenge, not because he was some great threat to mutantkind. You telling me she wouldn't have tried to kill Trask if the Sentinel had only killed Remy? She wasn't avenging Callisto. Speaking of Callisto, they are really focusing on images of her death for such a minor character. I'd love that earlier theory about her being a Horsemen to come true but Apoc doesn't seem to be involved in any of this.

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[Mantis-Ray]

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What Rogue did was an execution. Its one thing to kill someone in the middle of battle, but its another thing entirely to merc them even when they are surrendered/not a threat. It crosses a line and very take matters into your own hands type deal.

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[whitecrown]

I mean it is a sticky situation.

spoilers:

He wasn't actively a threat - quite the contrary, he was remorseful. Does remorse undo what he's done? No, but he didn't actively even use the Sentinels for the purpose Sinister/Bastion did. Both his culpability and threat level were not really in the "Justified Kill" territory, IMO. Plus Rogue isn't thinking clearly. She tried to kill a man for nothing other than personal revenge, not because he was some great threat to mutantkind. You telling me she wouldn't have tried to kill Trask if the Sentinel had only killed Remy? She wasn't avenging Callisto. Speaking of Callisto, they are really focusing on images of her death for such a minor character. I'd love that earlier theory about her being a Horsemen to come true but Apoc doesn't seem to be involved in any of this.

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I liked it though because in this continuity, this is the closest to the comic book Mutant Massacre of the Morlocks. In that storyline, many of the X-Men had no qualms about killing the Marauders after they witnessed all the carnage around them and so many of their friends brutally hurt and maimed. Gentle Colossus killed Riptide. Jean smashed Prism without a second thought. Rogue, Magneto, Wolverine, and Storm had no issues about killing Marauders so I felt that was in-character for Rogue here, and of course, Wolverine, to feel similarly here. I've always liked Callisto so I'm glad she's probably going to be revived. There's more that can be done with her and I can see her blaming Storm for letting down the Morlocks and not being there to protect them.

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[ChronoRogue]

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What Rogue did was an execution. Its one thing to kill someone in the middle of battle, but its another thing entirely to merc them even when they are surrendered/not a threat. It crosses a line and very take matters into your own hands type deal.

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Tons of heroes and mutants have done the same. Remember X-Force during decimation and Messiah Complex? That was very... proactive. You gotta remember just because you put someone in jail or in the hands of a government, doesn't mean they'll face justice. Look at where Henry Gyrich was put, a veritable mansion spending his time with music and alcohol, not a prison. After killing an innocent man in front of millions of people. That's not justice and sadly, it's not even an unusual situation either. Lots of wealthy elite and military top-brass get to walk scot-free if they've got the resources to buy themselves out of it. Vigilante justice has it's own issues as Punisher shows, but the due process system fails just as much.

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[ChildOfTheAtom]

I mean it is a sticky situation.

spoilers:

He wasn't actively a threat - quite the contrary, he was remorseful. Does remorse undo what he's done? No, but he didn't actively even use the Sentinels for the purpose Sinister/Bastion did. Both his culpability and threat level were not really in the "Justified Kill" territory, IMO. Plus Rogue isn't thinking clearly. She tried to kill a man for nothing other than personal revenge, not because he was some great threat to mutantkind. You telling me she wouldn't have tried to kill Trask if the Sentinel had only killed Remy? She wasn't avenging Callisto.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

What Rogue did was an execution. Its one thing to kill someone in the middle of battle, but its another thing entirely to merc them even when they are surrendered/not a threat. It crosses a line and very take matters into your own hands type deal.

end of spoilers

in the words of wolverine “good”

[FlawedCoil82]

Is there a way to read spoiler posts? I always have to copy the text and paste it into Notepad to read it, but I am sure there is an easier way…

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No Rogue and Cap fight but that was fine with me. Loved her getting the spotlight this episode and also her tender moment with Kurt as he comforted her over both of her boys. Plus Jean being the most empathetic one of the team and hugging her from behind, which felt reminiscent of Jean comforting Kitty in The Dark Phoenix Saga. Rogue killing Bastion (or thinking she did) shouldn't have been a shock but I still felt surprised she crossed that line. It's a nice touch to how even in the Mutant Massacre, certain X-Men had no qualms about killing the Marauders including Rogue, Wolverine, and Storm. There's something about Bastion, particularly his voice, which seems awfully familiar. Sinister also made a comment on how Bastion has fought the X-Men before. I don't know if this is a reference to Mastermold or Nimrod or if Bastion is now some previous character in new form. Whatever happened to Senator Kelly? He came across as super creepy though, the way he was grooming Magneto so I think this storyline is going to head in directions none of us expected beyond the comic OZT arc.

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How sure are we that Graydon Creed Jr. is really dead? Sure, it was implied in “Bloodlines” that Sabretooth had killed him, but what if that wasn’t actually Sabretooth and, instead, was the Phalanx who had already assimilated Sabretooth (who then appeared in “The Phalanx Covenant - Part 1”)? Hmm…I don’t know but I can’t really think of who else would hate the X-Men that much and who has previously appeared in the series?! Unless…they reveal that Bastion is actually Apocalypse?!? Bastion’s voice sort of reminded me of Apocalypse when he was disguised as the scientist who developed the Techno-Organic Virus and was working with Graydon Creed in the “Time Fugitives” 2-parter, then got pissed at Creed when he led the X-Men to his lab. I don’t know…just a thought.

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[NK1988]

he’s president now

Oops, I forgot that. In hologram form, I couldn't tell it was him. I still remember the female president from the original show.

I remember him mellowing out in TAS.

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But you know, between him, the reporter Trish, and Sunspot's parents - they seem to be isolating the X-Men from any Human "Ally." They aren't cruel bigots like Bastion, but they are unhelpful, even hurtful, in their own more mundane way. People have been wondering since ep5 if Militant Cyclops is coming. I dunno if he is, but it feels like they're building to something with severing any sort of friendly human relations our heroes have.

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[whitecrown]

I remember him mellowing out in TAS.

[/spoil]But you know, between him, the reporter Trish, and Sunspot's parents - they seem to be isolating the X-Mem from any Human "Ally." They aren't cruel bigots like Bastion, but they are unhelpful, even hurtful, in their own more mundane way.

People have been wondering since ep5 if Militant Cyclops is coming. I dunno if he is, but it feels like they're building to something with severing any sort of friendly human relations our heroes have.[/spoil]

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What I'm mainly seeing people think is that AoA could be coming and Magneto will be returning to what he once was before his reformation. Rogue will probably be joining him, like she was on his side in AoA, especially after her controversial scene in this episode. Her killing Trask (or thinking she killed him) proves she's got a different viewpoint now than most of the other X-Men. She's closer to Magneto ideologically and I imagine this will become a recurring issue between her and the rest of the team in the last few episodes of the season.

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[superjosh]

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Also did anyone recognize that woman next to Gambit's brother during his funeral? She reminds me strongly of Aurora from Alpha Flight, but why would Aurora be at Gambit's funeral?

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I thought it was super weird to include a character that had such similar hair to Rogue!

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There's something about Bastion, particularly his voice, which seems awfully familiar. Sinister also made a comment on how Bastion has fought the X-Men before. I don't know if this is a reference to Mastermold or Nimrod or if Bastion is now some previous character in new form. Whatever happened to Senator Kelly? He came across as super creepy though, the way he was grooming Magneto so I think this storyline is going to head in directions none of us expected beyond the comic OZT arc.

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It's now been revealed to be Theo James. I wonder how James got pulled into this project. He's the only kind of Hollywood type to be recruited for the series. If he sounded familiar, I think it's because he kind of sounded like Christian Bale in American Psycho. Maybe that was James' inspiration, because he did have a really unsettling and unnerving presence. Also of note, the voices for Cap and Ross were both the same actors from What If!! Was wondering if that would be the case when MCU characters started showing up. Ron Rubin returned as well for Kelly! It's nice to see him return even though he wasn't rehired for Morph.

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[whitecrown]

Is there a way to read spoiler posts? I always have to copy the text and paste it into Notepad to read it, but I am sure there is an easier way…



spoilers:

How sure are we that Graydon Creed Jr. is really dead? Sure, it was implied in “Bloodlines” that Sabretooth had killed him, but what if that wasn’t actually Sabretooth and, instead, was the Phalanx who had already assimilated Sabretooth (who then appeared in “The Phalanx Covenant - Part 1”)? Hmm…I don’t know but I can’t really think of who else would hate the X-Men that much and who has previously appeared in the series?! Unless…they reveal that Bastion is actually Apocalypse?!? Bastion’s voice sort of reminded me of Apocalypse when he was disguised as the scientist who developed the Techno-Organic Virus and was working with Graydon Creed in the “Time Fugitives” 2-parter, then got pissed at Creed when he led the X-Men to his lab. I don’t know…just a thought.

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I think it's only copying and pasting sadly.

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Good point about Graydon. I'm not sure how he could have been revived unless they used the Phalanx as an excuse or something, but it does feel like another family reunion is ripe between Kurt and Rogue being together and Mystique still MIA. Having Bastion prove to be their lost brother gives not only Rogue, Kurt, and Mystique further stake in what's happening but even Wolverine as Graydon is the son of his archenemy. I thought about Apocalypse as well but S5 of the original show had him using Fabian Cortez as a new host body. Maybe Bastion here is supposed to be a Sentinel upgraded version of Fabian but it didn't seem like it to me.

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[ChronoRogue]

You can read the spoiler tags by right-clicking and highlighting the section. You don't need to fully copy and paste fyi.

[whitecrown]

spoilers:

It's now been revealed to be Theo James. I wonder how James got pulled into this project. He's the only kind of Hollywood type to be recruited for the series. If he sounded familiar, I think it's because he kind of sounded like Christian Bale in American Psycho. Maybe that was James' inspiration, because he did have a really unsettling and unnerving presence. Also of note, the voices for Cap and Ross were both the same actors from What If!! Was wondering if that would be the case when MCU characters started showing up. Ron Rubin returned as well for Kelly! It's nice to see him return even though he wasn't rehired for Morph.

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Wow, Theo James. I wouldn't have guessed unless you hadn't told me. That is some high profile talent and now I'm wondering if Bastion will really only last for the last few episodes or if he won't continue on for future seasons. Maybe that's why Bastion's voice sounded familiar to me then rather than him being a previous character, even if Sinister's comment suggested that Bastion has faced the X-Men before. Which could still just be a reference to Mastermold or Nimrod. That's a nice touch for the other VAs. I'm glad that the ones who were replaced are still being brought back for other roles.

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