X-Men '97: The Animated Series

[Jackraow21]

I don't think what is being done here is any different than what's being done on twitter. People are brining things from twitter on to this board so they can vent about people who probably don't even post here and essentially have no idea in that respect they are being trolled. The only way to troll a writer here is if he decides to actually interact with us here or seek out the posts and actively read them which this is a setting where we can use far more characters than 140 to articulate. Either way i'm looking forward to x-men 97.

No one on here is directly attacking the posters on Twitter, meaning calling them out by name and/or poking fun at their physical appearances, making assumptions about them or their life from their Twitter profile, etc. We’re generalizing, not personalizing. That’s very different than what they did to Beau DeMayo on there. They went at him very personally and rudely because they didn’t get the answer they wanted.

[Frontier]

I just thought to myself was not only will we be seeing a good, fun, version of Beast again after so many years but there's a chance we'll get to see a normal version of Moira again .

[jwatson]

No one on here is directly attacking the posters on Twitter, meaning calling them out by name and/or poking fun at their physical appearances, making assumptions about them or their life from their Twitter profile, etc. We’re generalizing, not personalizing. That’s very different than what they did to Beau DeMayo on there. They went at him very personally and rudely because they didn’t get the answer they wanted.

I read the posts and i still don't know what happened to Beau Demayo because there isn't even a link to make irrelevant to the post. So i don't get the concept of bringing it over, talking about people to wag fingers at them especially if they will never see it. That is essentially doing exactly what they are doing without the direct attacking or calling out of that person which then in of itself makes it lack it's point. Maybe i didn't go enough pages back. So while not exactly the same it feels similar to me.

And i'm going to be honest, i think of people on twitter and my mind goes extreme just like some people in real life but more so cause in real life you can feel vibes. What may not seem like poking someone can seem like poking someone to them. In the same respect i don't want to see twitter folks signing up to just debate what they feel is being said about them here from another platform. which is immediately not my place and i can see where i may have interjected because of that feeling.

Edit: I finally found the link. page 107. I think demayo said it all

[Grunty]

I just thought to myself was not only will we be seeing a good, fun, version of Beast again after so many years but there's a chance we'll get to see a normal version of Moira again .

Thinking about it, it seems to me that the Moira X reveal as this shocking/suprising retcon that changes the history of the X-men, could only ever really have worked with the comics, their long continuity and aged/experienced audience.

Because the cartoons and movies don't have 60 years of compiled history in which a character like Moira MacTaggert had been prominently established, used and characterized in a particular way for several decades, then killed and decades later brought back as completely different character with the previous history and characterization simply disregarded as "fake".

For those who watched the cartoons and/or movies, Moira is at best a re-occuring bit character and at worst a complete unknown.

Therefor making such a sudden and random retcon of the entire character holds no shock or suprise value to an audience which is either entirely new to the X-men or has only ever known the character for brief bursts of appearances.

The same could also be said about the whole Krakoa nation plotline itself. Without 60 years of highly detailed universe building and 30 years of missery status quos (which also happens to the 30 years that seem to no longer leave a mark on the pop culture image of the X-men or provide storylines for adaptation), the general fanbase and audience of the X-men would likely not see such a radical departure from the established canon and characterization of the heros as necessary or even positive.

[Icefanatic]

DeMayo was confronted with accusations of either intentional or unintentional racism based on the voice casting. The expected response was that he would assure people he wasn't a racist, apologize for his ignorance, fire the person deemed unacceptable, promise to hire someone acceptable and pledge that he would educate himself so that nothing like that would happen in the future.

We've all see how things like that go countless times. Conform or be punished.

Instead of conforming he tried reasoning and explaining which made him the one they now wanted fired. All that is left for DeMayo is an appearance on Fox News discussing his eventual unfair termination and the cycle will be complete.

This sounds like you have to start this with ignoring all the context of how the industry or how the world works for this to be some sort of accurate grievance. A lot of false equivalency here. It's like now that everything is already predominantly one way, one now wants to wash the slate clean and before any additive measures are taken to even the playing field the one already in the have is like "what got me what i have now simply for existing, i now admit is a bad thing for others but isn't it wrong to now take it away from me despite the work they put in." which is what they are not doing by looking outside of the one group where they usually look but i get how it can "FEEL" that way. but just imagine where it was once 90% white getting yes (talent or not) and 10% white being turned down vs 10% other being given and 90% hearing no and find a measure of but we still got a lot more yes'. Shouldn't that make those who want try harder now since that was the premise usually used. It was given to the one who was best for it.

The problem is no one wants to judge something on it's own merit, or even by some standard that is applied equally and fairly, but on how something plugs into their past-grievance algorithm. Someone mentioned the voice of Darth Vader earlier in the thread. If you did that today there would be unholy hell that a black actor only got to be his voice and not physically play the part. You can imagine the Twitter posts:

"They wanted a black man to be the voice of the villain, but a white guy to be the face of the hero's father."

It's a valid argument based on past historical grievances but has nothing to do with the actual casting decisions. You get that all the time now from social media to so-called 'news' networks with people making wild assumptions and then attacking the hell out of people based on stuff that isn't even true. You had a white pregnant woman recently who rented a bike with her credit card and a black guy tried to take it. He said he rented it and everything except who actually rented it was caught on cell phone video. It went viral, with the woman branded a racist liar and repeatedly compared to the white woman who got Emmett Till tortured and lynched. She even got suspended from her job until she produced the receipts that showed she was telling the truth.

Is that progress? Are we now pursuing equity even in lynch mobs?

The internet too often gives just enough information to be outraged and too little to make informed opinions and half of everything you read about something is often wrong and yet people still run for the torches and pitchforks no better than medieval villagers.

I would still defend him if he was White and straight. Dumb internet **** is fuckery regardless at whom it's thrown.

You are one of the most consistently fair posters on here.

[KurtW95]

I think some cable news host had said Darth Vader was racist because his bad guy voice is black and good guy self was white.

[Alan2099]

How did we reach the point where everyone one actually WANTS to be a victim?

[metalclouds]

I was dismayed at what I read on twitter the other day. True, there were multiple things (imo) that resulted in the DeMayo situation. First, I concede that he didn't know how to handle being piled on. He didn't do the usual (and expected) apology- he argued back. Something that is a social media sin. Second he wasn't aware of the fan frustration with the constant whitewashing of the Sunspot character in the comics. Third he had already ticked off the fanbase by criticizing the Hickman era (how dare someone not enjoy what *we* enjoy), he also upset Emma Frost fans by saying things about her (Emma Frost a fictional white character). Lastly, I've read a lot of negative things about him on many forums, including this one for being a Jean Grey stan. People fear the cartoon will be all about her (some of us wish but no I don't think so).

People already feel a certain way about him. He is also a queer black man and people seem to go harder on him imo. Labeling him anti-black was and is insane.

I'll just say this, you can indeed be a gay black man and be anti-black same as some white people who can be anti-white as weird as it seems. I've been told by white people before that they don't like white people lol

[Icefanatic]

I think some cable news host had said Darth Vader was racist because his bad guy voice is black and good guy self was white.

Lol. I just made it up but after I posted I thought it sounded too spot on for someone not to have made that argument before.

How did we reach the point where everyone one actually WANTS to be a victim?

Because victims are conveyed attention, status and power. Imagine two children quarreling. One tells a parent the other did something bad to them(true or not). One gets punished and the other not only gets the satisfaction from that but may be able to garner some kind of reward, even if it's just a showering of affection, as recompense. Social media is built around garnering attention, acquiring status and by extension gaining power. Become an influencer... monetize your haters... There are people who will attain more a measure of success, or at least their view of success, as a victim or even a pseudo-victim; than they ever will as anything else.

I'll just say this, you can indeed be a gay black man and be anti-black same as some white people who can be anti-white as weird as it seems. I've been told by white people before that they don't like white people lol

Truth. The biggest hater of everything straight, white and male I have ever known in my life was straight, white and male. They drank so much Kool-Aid they became the Kool-Aid man. I've always been fascinated how someone gets like that.

[Ramiel12]

Talking through a digital platform brings out the worst in people. Fans who would never say such things to someone’s face are just pushier, more entitled and rude in the digital realm. Keyboard cowboys, if you will. Access to a creator is not a right, it’s a privilege. Either the creators will punish everyone by not giving access at all anymore (as Beau has now done) or, preferably, they should just block those who are rude and keep engaging with those who are respectful.

It’s fine to disagree with a creative choice and say your piece about why you feel that way. Once the person has responded, though, accept their answer and move on. Or, even if you’re incapable of taking “we went in a different direction than you wanted” for an answer, at least keep the dialogue civil rather than taking personal shots at the person. That just ends the discussion anyway and makes you look like an ******* in the process.

That's one of the reasons why there's not a lot of interaction between the writers and the fans. There will always be contrary opinions, but this should be discussed respectfully and Twitter seems to be the worst place for it.

[wlfking]

That's one of the reasons why there's not a lot of interaction between the writers and the fans. There will always be contrary opinions, but this should be discussed respectfully and Twitter seems to be the worst place for it.

It is interesting that comics will sometimes post some seriously scathing critiques of what they are doing. Someone on Redit found one a few months ago telling the writers that all the new X-Men from Giant Size X-Men except Wolverine were terrible and would never have a fan following.

[wlfking]

I just thought to myself was not only will we be seeing a good, fun, version of Beast again after so many years but there's a chance we'll get to see a normal version of Moira again .

Yeap. That will be great. They seem to need more time to cook. I really hope this show turns out well.

[jwatson]

DeMayo was confronted with accusations of either intentional or unintentional racism based on the voice casting. The expected response was that he would assure people he wasn't a racist, apologize for his ignorance, fire the person deemed unacceptable, promise to hire someone acceptable and pledge that he would educate himself so that nothing like that would happen in the future.

We've all see how things like that go countless times. Conform or be punished.

Instead of conforming he tried reasoning and explaining which made him the one they now wanted fired. All that is left for DeMayo is an appearance on Fox News discussing his eventual unfair termination and the cycle will be complete.



The problem is no one wants to judge something on it's own merit, or even by some standard that is applied equally and fairly, but on how something plugs into their past-grievance algorithm. Someone mentioned the voice of Darth Vader earlier in the thread. If you did that today there would be unholy hell that a black actor only got to be his voice and not physically play the part. You can imagine the Twitter posts:

"They wanted a black man to be the voice of the villain, but a white guy to be the face of the hero's father."

It's a valid argument based on past historical grievances but has nothing to do with the actual casting decisions. You get that all the time now from social media to so-called 'news' networks with people making wild assumptions and then attacking the hell out of people based on stuff that isn't even true. You had a white pregnant woman recently who rented a bike with her credit card and a black guy tried to take it. He said he rented it and everything except who actually rented it was caught on cell phone video. It went viral, with the woman branded a racist liar and repeatedly compared to the white woman who got Emmett Till tortured and lynched. She even got suspended from her job until she produced the receipts that showed she was telling the truth.

Is that progress? Are we now pursuing equity even in lynch mobs?

The internet too often gives just enough information to be outraged and too little to make informed opinions and half of everything you read about something is often wrong and yet people still run for the torches and pitchforks no better than medieval villagers.



You are one of the most consistently fair posters on here.

The problem in my opinion is you can't have it both ways. White people can't go after black people for taking a knee or not doing the anthem but then say it's okay to climb the capital. White people can't say people are coming for our jobs or fictional characters can't be black but they are okay with playing real world characters of color. I think that is the reason some say white people say they can;t with others because they are being fair same as some black people who are pretty consistent on what is fair though what is being fought for may seem opposite, why its seen as fundamentally different. i don't know, but the basic principles of why they are fighting, fairness, survivial, paying taxes and expected the same back or at least in the minds of the people. some felt an election was stolen so they could march, something we know is a lie, whereas black people marched because they were being killed and treated unfairly by the people we pay taxes to but while the concept should feel the same even if one is true and the other isn't, one side made themselves a victim of an actual victimless crime. So again i don't think it's as cut and dry as some seem to make it, and a lot of white grieviance does come off as victimhood when the facts are the people predominantly in power are people who look like them but that is a whole different off topic conversation. I mean a mermaid can't be black, elves can't be, but yet we are suppose to take that seriously after being told for years it doesn't matter if someone is native american or asian or what not a white person is the best person for that role. You can't set up the situations imo,and then act like the victims when it no longer works in your favor. but again i could post about this with more characters than even this board allows but it would be way off topic.

[Nicoclaws]

Thinking about it, it seems to me that the Moira X reveal as this shocking/suprising retcon that changes the history of the X-men, could only ever really have worked with the comics, their long continuity and aged/experienced audience.

Because the cartoons and movies don't have 60 years of compiled history in which a character like Moira MacTaggert had been prominently established, used and characterized in a particular way for several decades, then killed and decades later brought back as completely different character with the previous history and characterization simply disregarded as "fake".

For those who watched the cartoons and/or movies, Moira is at best a re-occuring bit character and at worst a complete unknown.

Therefor making such a sudden and random retcon of the entire character holds no shock or suprise value to an audience which is either entirely new to the X-men or has only ever known the character for brief bursts of appearances.

The same could also be said about the whole Krakoa nation plotline itself. Without 60 years of highly detailed universe building and 30 years of missery status quos (which also happens to the 30 years that seem to no longer leave a mark on the pop culture image of the X-men or provide storylines for adaptation), the general fanbase and audience of the X-men would likely not see such a radical departure from the established canon and characterization of the heros as necessary or even positive.

Moira would probably be swapped to Wolverine or Xavier in some way.

[Frontier]

Moira would probably be swapped to Wolverine or Xavier in some way.

Reminds me how they had Bishop replace Kitty for DoFP.