X-Men '97: The Animated Series

[superjosh]

Mondo has released some new X-Men:TAS figures. https://mondoshop.com/collections/x-...nimated-series

Look at Rogue! The '97 design is so much weaker than this and that's my biggest disappointment tbh.

[Rzerox21xx]

Yeah I like all your replies but unfortunately no matter what I say, it will never change their minds. They okay with X-MEN presenting other racial identity but then sexual idenitity is too much for them especially the jerk chud that is boycotting disney that i mention, because he has 3 sons and want to raised them to be tough boys who are into sports. His favorite character is Cyclops and but hates Wolverine. I got him to read the Keiron Gillen Uncanny run which he enjoyed as a Cyclops but yeah I could tell that Scott Summers if were real, would tell him off. He also say things just to **** with me to get a rise out of me. Like the one time he claim to know more X-MEN than I despite me having read Claremont, Gillen, Morrison, Carey, Aaron, ect. He's a proud sexist that disagree with one of the major aspects of Claremont run that is that he made the female characters badass and stand out as much as the male. Just to **** with him, I would show him the issue where Storm without powers beat Cyclops for leadership of the X-MEN in Uncanny 201 and he wasn't happy. I live in FL, despite having different political and social views, they still the only friends I got and its hard for me to make new friends. we also have common interests in anime despite different views towards a certain controversial anime voice actor that I think deserved to get fired and ostracized for his pervy creepy behavior towards women especially young girls while they root for him because he shouldn't lose his job for it or they hate the metoo movement. yeah its complicated.

[yogaflame]

lol no I don't have to be concerned with whether bigots feel included or not, they can always stop being bigots, it's a choice to hold hateful views

people who are non binary can not change who they are, just like gay or trans people can not change who they are

Intolerance is intolerance. The bigot your reject today could pull you out of a ditch tomorrow. The downtrodden you uplift could stab you in the back. The moral high ground can sometimes be a slippery slope and bite you in the butt, but that's the price that is paid.

[Nyssane]

Intolerance is intolerance. The bigot your reject today could pull you out of a ditch tomorrow. The downtrodden you uplift could stab you in the back. The moral high ground can sometimes be a slippery slope and bite you in the butt, but that's the price that is paid.

What a silly thing to say.

[Rzerox21xx]

They get the message and theme of X-MEN and other media but they don't care. Like I said, one of those friends love Gundam and its theme is anti-war and pacifism but he don't agreed with it as he see force in war is necessary and building arms. He said you can enjoy that media and still don't get the theme or message or just not care. he justify saying there's different ways to enjoy it.

[yogaflame]

What a silly thing to say.

Remember the Season 1 finale? When the X-Men went to save Kelly, who had been aggressively campaigning on an anti-mutant platform? Gambit protests at first. Why save a bigot? But then they decide to go and even Magneto helps and they all save him and blow up Sentinels and everything. Then Kelly has a change of heart and understands that while mutants can indeed pose a threat to society, they can also use their powers to help, and he frees Beast with a pardon. If they had just left Kelly to die(and be driven around by a computer brain), would that have helped their cause, in the short or long term? A bigot ended up being their greatest ally.

It's like that with everything. It was Republicans who ended slavery in the USA. It was Democrats who founded the KKK. Obama's White House carried out more drone strikes in more countries than any other presidency. Trump's White House didn't start any new wars, contrary to previous and subsequent administrations. There are good and bad actions carried out by people of all races, creeds, colors, genders, sexualities, political parties, and what have you. The same person can be helpful and harmful. It's a complicated world we live in.

[Rift]

So I personally know a friend who I used to lend him comics to read alot being X-MEN and for the last few years, he wont give Disney his money for being woke and he won't give X-MEN 97 a try due to the Morph being non binary despite enjoying the original 90s series. I called him out of it for not being a poser fan who don't get the main theme or message of X-MEN while my other friend, another chud defended him saying that there's anyway you can enjoy a franchise justifying how he's a huge Gundam fan but its themes is pacifism which he don't agree with, and it doesn't make him less of a fan the same way the other chud is a X-men fan despite all he enjoy is cool costumes, and battles with aliens and giant robots. What you think. do I have a right to call him a poser x-men fan or not a true fan. I been both friends are chuds who are MAGA and has fucked up views.

Are they really you're friends if you're going behind their backs to call them insulting names online? I get that you're low on options, but how healthy is it to be with them, if the three of you seem try to deliberately upset one another and have irreconcilable beliefs that make you look down on each other? Reading your posts, you sound genuinely upset with their comments and how they treat you and your ideas. Like I can't, as an outsider, say what's right or wrong for you here. But as someone who has been in toxic relationships, it really sounds like you gotta step back and examine if the friendships are really worth it. Beyond X-Men, beyond politics and such.

As an aside, I think it's fair to criticize corporates being woke. Representation is important, we should be uplifting voices. Like, I made a whole spiel about making a concerted effort to bring more minority talent into the voice acting industry in this thread a while back. I also don't think it's fair to dismiss any attempt at diversity as pandering wokeness; progress needs to start somewhere. (I get the feeling that they dismiss any attempts at diversity as woke-ness?) But I'd say it's pretty valid to be suspicious of Disney, of all companies. Like half their attempts at diversity have been terribly misguided at best, or ooze shallow, disingenuous corporate pandering at worst. I'll give them credit for making more of an effort than most companies, but come on. They've pulled out some trainwrecks in the past few years.

Aaaaand I'm getting a bit off topic here, but this is kind of a general thing in relation to what people are talking about here. I want to talk about how it's easy for people to get into political echo chambers and view the other side as all wrong, to see in black and white, or get the wrong impression of what other people mean. I've gotten into a few of those before. It doesn't work for everyone, but I know a lot of people can grow and become more open-minded if they have the right people supporting them and helping them understand the other side a little more. That's why I personally don't try to dismiss other people too much for their views, since they could still be good people, if misguided. Or maybe I'm closed-minded and I could learn from their perspective. I feel like maybe your friends are too set in their ways and are unwilling to change, and maybe you shouldn't be the one who has to hold their hand. (There are so many asterisks as to why this won't work in many cases, especially if your safety is concerned.) But I do think it's important think about togetherness.

For example, I think we should talk about Hellion. He's shown to be classist and bigoted towards others outside of his group. But he's also disabled and dates a Latina. He hates prejudice but is also prejudiced, himself. He believes in the death penalty, since he beat Omega Sentinel to death. He grew up rich but has no money now. He's friends with people of different races and religions. He's against illegal aliens, like Broo. He bullies people, then defends other people from being bullied. He's a protester who hates authority, but would also probably make fun of other protesters and call them hippies. He's literally right about everything. Whether you're non-political, left-leaning, right-leaning, anarchist, conservative, hate-filled, a Twitter user, or Rift, he has a universal and unifying appeal. Everyone loves him. If your enemies can love Hellion, then surely there's some goodness in them.

[ChronoRogue]

Are they really you're friends if you're going behind their backs to call them insulting names online? I get that you're low on options, but how healthy is it to be with them, if the three of you seem try to deliberately upset one another and have irreconcilable beliefs that make you look down on each other? Reading your posts, you sound genuinely upset with their comments and how they treat you and your ideas. Like I can't, as an outsider, say what's right or wrong for you here. But as someone who has been in toxic relationships, it really sounds like you gotta step back and examine if the friendships are really worth it. Beyond X-Men, beyond politics and such.

As an aside, I think it's fair to criticize corporates being woke. Representation is important, we should be uplifting voices. Like, I made a whole spiel about making a concerted effort to bring more minority talent into the voice acting industry in this thread a while back. I also don't think it's fair to dismiss any attempt at diversity as pandering wokeness; progress needs to start somewhere. (I get the feeling that they dismiss any attempts at diversity as woke-ness?) But I'd say it's pretty valid to be suspicious of Disney, of all companies. Like half their attempts at diversity have been terribly misguided at best, or ooze shallow, disingenuous corporate pandering at worst. I'll give them credit for making more of an effort than most companies, but come on. They've pulled out some trainwrecks in the past few years.

Aaaaand I'm getting a bit off topic here, but this is kind of a general thing in relation to what people are talking about here. I want to talk about how it's easy for people to get into political echo chambers and view the other side as all wrong, to see in black and white, or get the wrong impression of what other people mean. I've gotten into a few of those before. It doesn't work for everyone, but I know a lot of people can grow and become more open-minded if they have the right people supporting them and helping them understand the other side a little more. That's why I personally don't try to dismiss other people too much for their views, since they could still be good people, if misguided. Or maybe I'm closed-minded and I could learn from their perspective. I feel like maybe your friends are too set in their ways and are unwilling to change, and maybe you shouldn't be the one who has to hold their hand. (There are so many asterisks as to why this won't work in many cases, especially if your safety is concerned.) But I do think it's important think about togetherness.

For example, I think we should talk about Hellion. He's shown to be classist and bigoted towards others outside of his group. But he's also disabled and dates a Latina. He hates prejudice but is also prejudiced, himself. He believes in the death penalty, since he beat Omega Sentinel to death. He grew up rich but has no money now. He's friends with people of different races and religions. He's against illegal aliens, like Broo. He bullies people, then defends other people from being bullied. He's a protester who hates authority, but would also probably make fun of other protesters and call them hippies. He's literally right about everything. Whether you're non-political, left-leaning, right-leaning, anarchist, conservative, hate-filled, a Twitter user, or Rift, he has a universal and unifying appeal. Everyone loves him. If your enemies can love Hellion, then surely there's some goodness in them.

I think this is closet to my opinion. I don't think companies should stop supporting diversity or being inclusive, but I also think it's important to try and still show restraint when possible to allow for growth or understanding. Don't villianize 'other sides' or paint them with broad strokes, it makes it harder to find solutions and to try to get at the root causes of their reactions. The message is about protecting who hates and fears you for a reason, because there is still always hope that thoughts and feelings can change as per the dream.

that said, I do think the Friends of Humanity can be a funny parody at times and would never take that away

Also your last paragraph, what a moving speech.

[FlawedCoil82]

Remember the Season 1 finale? When the X-Men went to save Kelly, who had been aggressively campaigning on an anti-mutant platform? Gambit protests at first. Why save a bigot? But then they decide to go and even Magneto helps and they all save him and blow up Sentinels and everything. Then Kelly has a change of heart and understands that while mutants can indeed pose a threat to society, they can also use their powers to help, and he frees Beast with a pardon. If they had just left Kelly to die(and be driven around by a computer brain), would that have helped their cause, in the short or long term? A bigot ended up being their greatest ally.

It's like that with everything. It was Republicans who ended slavery in the USA. It was Democrats who founded the KKK. Obama's White House carried out more drone strikes in more countries than any other presidency. Trump's White House didn't start any new wars, contrary to previous and subsequent administrations. There are good and bad actions carried out by people of all races, creeds, colors, genders, sexualities, political parties, and what have you. The same person can be helpful and harmful. It's a complicated world we live in.

You are going to get annihilated, but I do agree with you. I was unjustly banned from an X-group I was in for years merely for stating facts that someone didn’t like (however, the vast majority of people responding were agreeing with me), so they used the power they don’t deserve and silenced any further open discussion by removing me. And all that accomplished was make me hold even more disdain towards those who are blinded by their own self-righteousness and cannot see the problems with some of the logic in their own ideologies. I am very much opposed to the silencing of open discussion and find efforts to silence it by their own shaky justifications to be inherently evil.

Regardless, X-Men are for everyone and of all walks of life. No one will ever agree fully with everything. Everyone has their own unique life experiences that shape how they feel and perceive the reality around them. I certainly had no issues with how the X-Men were portrayed in the original series. I could see the obvious social commentary, but I still never considered that to be the unquestionable focal point that everyone MUST agree or align with in order to be a “fan”. When many individuals treat a comic book like they are Holy Doctrines of social commentary, it significantly lessens the fun that comics are, first and foremost, meant to be.

[Maine Starfish]

I think you all can handle one character out of dozens who is non binary

[ChronoRogue]

I think you all can handle one character out of dozens who is non binary

I don't think that was the message of the last few replies. It was more not antagonizing people for having different beliefs, even if they are behaving frustratingly or hate-mongering.

Take a page out of the X-Men in 97'. (without the paramilitary violence)

[Rzerox21xx]

Are they really you're friends if you're going behind their backs to call them insulting names online? I get that you're low on options, but how healthy is it to be with them, if the three of you seem try to deliberately upset one another and have irreconcilable beliefs that make you look down on each other? Reading your posts, you sound genuinely upset with their comments and how they treat you and your ideas. Like I can't, as an outsider, say what's right or wrong for you here. But as someone who has been in toxic relationships, it really sounds like you gotta step back and examine if the friendships are really worth it. Beyond X-Men, beyond politics and such.

As an aside, I think it's fair to criticize corporates being woke. Representation is important, we should be uplifting voices. Like, I made a whole spiel about making a concerted effort to bring more minority talent into the voice acting industry in this thread a while back. I also don't think it's fair to dismiss any attempt at diversity as pandering wokeness; progress needs to start somewhere. (I get the feeling that they dismiss any attempts at diversity as woke-ness?) But I'd say it's pretty valid to be suspicious of Disney, of all companies. Like half their attempts at diversity have been terribly misguided at best, or ooze shallow, disingenuous corporate pandering at worst. I'll give them credit for making more of an effort than most companies, but come on. They've pulled out some trainwrecks in the past few years.

Aaaaand I'm getting a bit off topic here, but this is kind of a general thing in relation to what people are talking about here. I want to talk about how it's easy for people to get into political echo chambers and view the other side as all wrong, to see in black and white, or get the wrong impression of what other people mean. I've gotten into a few of those before. It doesn't work for everyone, but I know a lot of people can grow and become more open-minded if they have the right people supporting them and helping them understand the other side a little more. That's why I personally don't try to dismiss other people too much for their views, since they could still be good people, if misguided. Or maybe I'm closed-minded and I could learn from their perspective. I feel like maybe your friends are too set in their ways and are unwilling to change, and maybe you shouldn't be the one who has to hold their hand. (There are so many asterisks as to why this won't work in many cases, especially if your safety is concerned.) But I do think it's important think about togetherness.

For example, I think we should talk about Hellion. He's shown to be classist and bigoted towards others outside of his group. But he's also disabled and dates a Latina. He hates prejudice but is also prejudiced, himself. He believes in the death penalty, since he beat Omega Sentinel to death. He grew up rich but has no money now. He's friends with people of different races and religions. He's against illegal aliens, like Broo. He bullies people, then defends other people from being bullied. He's a protester who hates authority, but would also probably make fun of other protesters and call them hippies. He's literally right about everything. Whether you're non-political, left-leaning, right-leaning, anarchist, conservative, hate-filled, a Twitter user, or Rift, he has a universal and unifying appeal. Everyone loves him. If your enemies can love Hellion, then surely there's some goodness in them.

I get you but I actually tell them what i told you to their faces, that one friend I call a sexist bigot to his face and he doesn't care and he would call me something I better off not repeating over here. In matter in facts, they say slurs while no one is around. I try to lead them to not say it and well they tell to some being a sissy or P word. they also put me down for not working for years due a mental disability and relying of Social security and food stamps. the friend that is father to his 3 sons, he called his son the R word as a sign of affection. They even admit they have a mentality of edgy kids in middle school and I guess I'm not the only that cares even if I tempted to go along with their jokes. I mean to be honest, I came here sorta for advice on how to deal with it as a X-MEN fan with other X-men fans that dont seem to get the message. I apologize i led this off topic which does relate on the X-MEN 97 which we did all enjoyed the original series. the thing is about them, they make fun of everyone of all races creeds sex, anyone. I don't have anyone else for friends, and they invite to trips to conventions in other states and countrys. I been to Japan twice with them and had fun and enjoy it even they say messed up things

[ChronoRogue]

I get you but I actually tell them what i told you to their faces, that one friend I call a sexist bigot to his face and he doesn't care and he would call me something I better off not repeating over here. In matter in facts, they say slurs while no one is around. I try to lead them to not say it and well they tell to some being a sissy or P word. the friend that is father to his 3 sons, he called his son the R word as a sign of affection. They even admit they have a mentality of edgy kids in middle school and I guess I'm not the only that cares even if I tempted to go along with their jokes. I mean to be honest, I came here sorta for advice on how to deal with it as a X-MEN fan with other X-men fans that dont seem to get the message. I apologize i led this off topic which does relate on the X-MEN 97 which we did all enjoyed the original series. the thing is about them, they make fun of everyone of all races creeds sex, anyone.

It's a difficult situation to be sure, it's not an easy thing to change people. People don't like being told their wrong and will seek out echo chambers, as was pointed out earlier, so they don't have to challenge their views.

I think one of the most powerful tools for change is usually just inspiration or leading by example. Don't try to control your friends jokes, just change how you react to them. Don't join in, let it fizzle out, even if they try to bait you into reacting. Share your opinion if asked but don't force it on them. Forcing an issue will make them cling onto it harder. More emotionally intelligent friends would have stopped these type of jokes awhile ago once you made it clear you were uncomfortable with them but I understand friendships can vary a lot. Sadly many adults sometimes are stuck in that teen maturity mentality, of wanting to rebel and impress others through that action of standing out, because its one of the few expressions of power and independence they have. IMO a lot of people who hold these types of views want more control of their lives, so they take it out on scapegoats including people they view as weaker than them (e.g minorities, women, etc...).

There has to be a lot of work through self-reflection for people to change. There is also the consequences route, of using "punishments" to dissuade the behavior but that usually can also just cause resentment; their not kids, you can't really control much there. Real consequences would have to come from sources they care about like their family or careers, so don't focus on that. If you truly can't handle their behavior, which is understandable, it might just be better to distance yourself from them though.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Lol at these white supremacist comments. There is no "tolerating" people who would see people like you banned from media presence, or what they really want...for you to be hanged. Some of yall literally just watch too many cartoons.

Say what you *really* want...for certain types of people to have certain special status to hurt others without repercussion, with the minority just taking "gracefully" because they are the minority. The worship of power, sycophantry, is noxious.

[ChronoRogue]

Lol at these white supremacist comments. There is no "tolerating" people who would see people like you banned from media presence, or what they really want...for you to be hanged. Some of yall literally just watch too many cartoons.

I mean this is a comic book forum, I think we all indulge in past-times that people look down upon as immature. That should not be an indicator of maturity.

As for tolerating intolerance, if anyone responds to you with violence or attempts to take away your ability to express yourself most countries have laws against that.

There are definitely people who are extremists, but if you don't get at the root causes of why the people continue to act this way directly or indirectly, there isn't going to be any real progress. And you don't get those answers by completely shutting this information down or out, then you perpetuate a self-fulfilling prophecy an opposing view-point will have about the "other side" in the first place.

Say what you *really* want...for certain types of people to have certain special status to hurt others without repercussion, with the minority just taking "gracefully" because they are the minority. The worship of power, sycophantry, is noxious.

There should be repercussions for anyone that breaks the law. At that point it's a safety concern and not about communication.

What should not be encouraged is the thought that people's minds on issues can't change and perpetuating a divide by destroying communication channels.