X-Men '97: The Animated Series

[MechaJeanix]

I was dismayed at what I read on twitter the other day. True, there were multiple things (imo) that resulted in the DeMayo situation. First, I concede that he didn't know how to handle being piled on. He didn't do the usual (and expected) apology- he argued back. Something that is a social media sin. Second he wasn't aware of the fan frustration with the constant whitewashing of the Sunspot character in the comics. Third he had already ticked off the fanbase by criticizing the Hickman era (how dare someone not enjoy what *we* enjoy), he also upset Emma Frost fans by saying things about her (Emma Frost a fictional white character). Lastly, I've read a lot of negative things about him on many forums, including this one for being a Jean Grey stan. People fear the cartoon will be all about her (some of us wish but no I don't think so).

People already feel a certain way about him. He is also a queer black man and people seem to go harder on him imo. Labeling him anti-black was and is insane. I read people I follow and respect doing that to him. They didn't let up even though you could tell the dude was in pain. That made them make fun of him even more. Humans love to hurt each other.

Sunspot is a man of color in the cartoon. His identity as a person of color is not erased. The voice actor does appear white (but I never like to presume the race or ethnicity of anyone), and I get the frustration about it, but harassing creators is not the answer. I saw people who generally do not condone creator harassment cheer DeMayo being bullied. It was a wild thing to witness.

People - especially us fans need to learn how to be constructive. Sure, DeMayo shouldn't have responded to fans being fans - and that was his mistake. Doubling down instead of just logging off was also a mistake. You cannot win arguments against fans for one thing - see why JDW left twitter, or remember when fans went after Hickman for not making a statement about Black Lives Matter - folks assumed he was anti-BLM and went after him hard on twitter (and sent him vile DMs - some popular x twitter folks apologized for doing that after they calmed down).

Whitewashing is a bad thing full stop. We can address it without being nasty to someone or calling names or this fake activism of cyber bullying (spoiler alert being a bully on twitter is not real social justice or real activism and I wish some of the chronically online fans would realize this). Hopefully changes can be made - but I find it difficult to call for the firing of the Sunspot voice actor and let's face it - it is probably too late for that.

I also see a lot of negativity about this cartoon. I think some fans hate it because it is older than they are. They'd rather see Wolverine and the X-men return because it was more recent. I hope these same folks at least try this series and challenge themselves to keep an open mind. Hey, it might be good!

*For the record I love the Hickman/current era. It just doesn't hurt me that some do not like it. I promise it is ok if someone doesn't like what you like or can't see what you see about something especially when it comes to comics, movies, literature, etc. I think why it hurts people because we have went so far that opinions have to be right or wrong, but they do not have to be either. It is better when there is analysis or a lot of thought or evidence when creating an opinion but it isn't necessary. DeMayo not liking the Hickman era doesn't make him anti-social justice, a self hater, or whatever else I've seen labeled at him. Calling a gay/queer Black man anti-black or just bulling him online is disgusting and it doesn't matter who was doing it (other gay men, black queer men, etc.).

Yikes sometimes the internet really was a mistake.

[ChronoRogue]

Yea the bullying and harassment take it way too far. People can have a disagreement of opinion with creators without having to resort to that. The New Mutant casting of Sunspot IMO was much worse, as that is a visual medium, and I was bitter for a long time about it but never went and sought out Josh Boone to harass him for it.

Sadly this happens with a lot of issues, people don't seem to know the difference between constructive criticism and harassment. Lotta people also say their against bullying then turn around and bully other people with a complete lack of self-awareness as long as they feel its "justified". Haven't the X-Men taught us to protect a world that hates and fears us? Doesn't seem like a lot of fans took that message to heart. well, I get upset at times too, but try to restrain myself as best as I can.

Either way, still hope to see Sunspot a fair bit in the cartoon and while I can understand (even expressed this feeling myself) the disappoint of his consistent white-washing; this isn't actually helping in the visual mediums it happens most.

[Psy-lock]

Bullying a real-life black man over a fictional black character is...a choice. Creators really should stop trying to engage with people on Twitter, they're just making themselves a target.

[Uncanny X-Man]

The irony of people complaining about Sunspot's voice actor saying Roberto was bullied because he was black... and then go ahead and bully a black man themselves.

[Jackraow21]

Talking through a digital platform brings out the worst in people. Fans who would never say such things to someone’s face are just pushier, more entitled and rude in the digital realm. Keyboard cowboys, if you will. Access to a creator is not a right, it’s a privilege. Either the creators will punish everyone by not giving access at all anymore (as Beau has now done) or, preferably, they should just block those who are rude and keep engaging with those who are respectful.

It’s fine to disagree with a creative choice and say your piece about why you feel that way. Once the person has responded, though, accept their answer and move on. Or, even if you’re incapable of taking “we went in a different direction than you wanted” for an answer, at least keep the dialogue civil rather than taking personal shots at the person. That just ends the discussion anyway and makes you look like an ******* in the process.

[jwatson]

I don't do twitter and stuff but i have to say if some of the responses people got for broaching the topic of a afro brazilian being voiced by an actual afro brazilian, i believe there was also an argument around this with Apu from the simpsons but that was a bit different because it was a white voice actor playing an indian character. Here imo i think a afro brazilian would be more important as a voice actor if there were a particular area of brazil, perhaps a slang to the speech that was trying to be brought across or should, but its not i can see a brazilain playing a brazilain character. I mean despite the colorism there they do for the most part promote them self as one people where as in America we are more a melting pot.


Beyond that while i don't condone attacking someone on twitter. No one enjoys anyone trying to talk down to them or speak to them like their stupid or to just plain gaslight them. Like what does not presuming to sit on a board meeting have to do with an opinion, the only thing i can see is trying to devalue someones opinion before essentially giving your own. It is not clever, it is actually imo a poor way to insinulate the lack of saying anything and to try to block conversation my already trying to debase what someone may say because "they really can't know, because they weren't in the room" well if that's how someone feels why do they even have an opinion at all and simply not just leave it at that. There is just a lot of triggering gaslighting in this thread so i can only imagine on twitter.

I mean i wouldn't presume to be christ but i often think "what would jesus do?" i certainly never been in the oval office but i often have opinions on politics. i mean the more you dissect the assumption it becomes comical.

[Devaishwarya]

The irony of people complaining about Sunspot's voice actor saying Roberto was bullied because he was black... and then go ahead and bully a black man themselves.

'Tis Twatter in all its "glory".

[Devaishwarya]

I was dismayed at what I read on twitter the other day. True, there were multiple things (imo) that resulted in the DeMayo situation. First, I concede that he didn't know how to handle being piled on. He didn't do the usual (and expected) apology- he argued back. Something that is a social media sin. Second he wasn't aware of the fan frustration with the constant whitewashing of the Sunspot character in the comics. Third he had already ticked off the fanbase by criticizing the Hickman era (how dare someone not enjoy what *we* enjoy), he also upset Emma Frost fans by saying things about her (Emma Frost a fictional white character). Lastly, I've read a lot of negative things about him on many forums, including this one for being a Jean Grey stan. People fear the cartoon will be all about her (some of us wish but no I don't think so).

People already feel a certain way about him. He is also a queer black man and people seem to go harder on him imo. Labeling him anti-black was and is insane. I read people I follow and respect doing that to him. They didn't let up even though you could tell the dude was in pain. That made them make fun of him even more. Humans love to hurt each other.

Sunspot is a man of color in the cartoon. His identity as a person of color is not erased. The voice actor does appear white (but I never like to presume the race or ethnicity of anyone), and I get the frustration about it, but harassing creators is not the answer. I saw people who generally do not condone creator harassment cheer DeMayo being bullied. It was a wild thing to witness.

People - especially us fans need to learn how to be constructive. Sure, DeMayo shouldn't have responded to fans being fans - and that was his mistake. Doubling down instead of just logging off was also a mistake. You cannot win arguments against fans for one thing - see why JDW left twitter, or remember when fans went after Hickman for not making a statement about Black Lives Matter - folks assumed he was anti-BLM and went after him hard on twitter (and sent him vile DMs - some popular x twitter folks apologized for doing that after they calmed down).

Whitewashing is a bad thing full stop. We can address it without being nasty to someone or calling names or this fake activism of cyber bullying (spoiler alert being a bully on twitter is not real social justice or real activism and I wish some of the chronically online fans would realize this). Hopefully changes can be made - but I find it difficult to call for the firing of the Sunspot voice actor and let's face it - it is probably too late for that.

I also see a lot of negativity about this cartoon. I think some fans hate it because it is older than they are. They'd rather see Wolverine and the X-men return because it was more recent. I hope these same folks at least try this series and challenge themselves to keep an open mind. Hey, it might be good!

*For the record I love the Hickman/current era. It just doesn't hurt me that some do not like it. I promise it is ok if someone doesn't like what you like or can't see what you see about something especially when it comes to comics, movies, literature, etc. I think why it hurts people because we have went so far that opinions have to be right or wrong, but they do not have to be either. It is better when there is analysis or a lot of thought or evidence when creating an opinion but it isn't necessary. DeMayo not liking the Hickman era doesn't make him anti-social justice, a self hater, or whatever else I've seen labeled at him. Calling a gay/queer Black man anti-black or just bulling him online is disgusting and it doesn't matter who was doing it (other gay men, black queer men, etc.).

Yikes sometimes the internet really was a mistake.

Reposted for truth.

Though I will say
Having an opinion...is good.
Having an informed opinion...is better.

[jwatson]

Most informed opinions are formulated on the presence of second hand or circumstantial information as most people are not literally in the room when most things happen. Especially a crime.

[Icefanatic]

Part of this falls under the current axiom that a white person playing a non-white character is automatically white-washing, erasure and so extremely offensive it must not happen and if does no one should see it; whereas a non-white person playing a white character is automatically progress and should be universally hailed and accepted and anyone who opposes it is clearly a bigot. Perfect authenticity is an absolute requirement on one side while it is just an impediment to everything good on the other. People are quick to justify all that using historical examples, which often results in just using a past wrong to justify being wrong in the present.

I'm presently surprised at the number of people defending DeMayo, but also keenly aware that is probably almost entirely due to the fact that he is both black and queer as his defenders all point out. You have to wonder is even 10% of the people defending him would be doing so it he were straight and white, because quite a few of the people I've seen defending him are usually rabidly on the other side of this argument.

Of course, many of the same people who hate the 'The Black Guy Dies First' troupe love the "Replacing Redheaded Characters with Black Actors" troupe. In other news, hypocrisy is alive and well.

If we are going to require the voice actor to match why not the animator? We are already seeing that in comics where first it was the writer and now the artist should match, too.

Where does it end? Well, it doesn't. If the current collapse of civilization teaches us anything it's that we now follow every good intention to such a ridiculous absolute extreme conclusion that it ends in destruction.

[jwatson]

Part of this falls under the current axiom that a white person playing a non-white character is automatically white-washing, erasure and so extremely offensive it must not happen and if does no one should see it; whereas a non-white person playing a white character is automatically progress and should be universally hailed and accepted and anyone who opposes it is clearly a bigot. Perfect authenticity is an absolute requirement on one side while it is just an impediment to everything good on the other. People are quick to justify all that using historical examples, which often results in just using a past wrong to justify being wrong in the present.

I'm presently surprised at the number of people defending DeMayo, but also keenly aware that is probably almost entirely due to the fact that he is both black and queer as his defenders all point out. You have to wonder is even 10% of the people defending him would be doing so it he were straight and white, because quite a few of the people I've seen defending him are usually rabidly on the other side of this argument.

Of course, many of the same people who hate the 'The Black Guy Dies First' troupe love the "Replacing Redheaded Characters with Black Actors" troupe. In other news, hypocrisy is alive and well.

If we are going to require the voice actor to match why not the animator? We are already seeing that in comics where first it was the writer and now the artist should match, too.

Where does it end? Well, it doesn't. If the current collapse of civilization teaches us anything it's that we now follow every good intention to such a ridiculous absolute extreme conclusion that it ends in destruction.

This sounds like you have to start this with ignoring all the context of how the industry or how the world works for this to be some sort of accurate grievance. A lot of false equivalency here. It's like now that everything is already predominantly one way, one now wants to wash the slate clean and before any additive measures are taken to even the playing field the one already in the have is like "what got me what i have now simply for existing, i now admit is a bad thing for others but isn't it wrong to now take it away from me despite the work they put in." which is what they are not doing by looking outside of the one group where they usually look but i get how it can "FEEL" that way. but just imagine where it was once 90% white getting yes (talent or not) and 10% white being turned down vs 10% other being given and 90% hearing no and find a measure of but we still got a lot more yes'. Shouldn't that make those who want try harder now since that was the premise usually used. It was given to the one who was best for it.

[Devaishwarya]

I would still defend him if he was White and straight. Dumb internet **** is fuckery regardless at whom it's thrown.

[jwatson]

I don't think what is being done here is any different than what's being done on twitter. People are brining things from twitter on to this board so they can vent about people who probably don't even post here and essentially have no idea in that respect they are being trolled. The only way to troll a writer here is if he decides to actually interact with us here or seek out the posts and actively read them which this is a setting where we can use far more characters than 140 to articulate. Either way i'm looking forward to x-men 97.

But on the flip if twitter is like here, lets not act like some people don't bait people with stuff directly from writers or their twitters as though they are friends and sometimes from what i've seen posted here writers seem to play into that. So they kind of inherit the stuff their fan/friend absorbs with their own online behavior. That is the very nature of sharing and liking as i understand it, for your circle, good or bad to see it.

[wlfking]

Shame about what went down on twitter. I barely understand how to work that thing honestly. It's probably late to point out that people on the platform can disagree but should do it in a civil manner. Doesn't meant it's not important and we still shouldn't insist upon it.

[Devaishwarya]

Absolutely.