‘new’ Iron Fist. Why???

[Redjack]

Lets be real here. This isn't about sales. The new Iron Fist isn't going to sell any better than the old one. I mean I don't have a problem with them changing the dude, but it isn't about sales. Its a mini series. It will do ok.

well.

you can think what you want, of course, but it's always about sales.

always.

[Yin&Yang]

I like Danny Rand. I like Danny as Iron Fist. I don’t see why they are sacrificing his role just to make an ethnic correction.

First, is Marvel saying white people can’t have martial arts skill? Is it racist that they believe all martial art lead characters should be Asian?

I would rather they developed an ALL NEW original character If they wanted more Asian representation.

I feel like Marvel is promoting an Asian stereotype.

I thought about this.
But did we not also have "Dare-devil" Elektra?

[Spiderfan001]

The "current" generation likes to talk like the previous generation was very different, and while there are differences, a lot of stuff repeats itself.

Truth is, human species is cyclical in too many boring ways, and while the cycles may not be identical, there are patterns.

It's actually funny how arrogant it is to think only the current generation thinks of certain things lol.

Oh and, I'm not shitting only on the current generation, I'm saying humanity in general is that moronic, this generation is doing it, the previous one did it, and the next one definitely will, 'cause human species likes to overrate whatever lil' group they're part of.

As someone on the younger side, completely agree.Some people of current gen act like all elderly people are dumb af.

As always with a mantle change, it's rough on fans of the original character.

On god, Make more OC's.Which they don't because it would take actual talent to create one from scratch instead of feeding of an existing fanbase.

I bought the America Chavez mini because atleast it's an OC, that and the art was great.

Lets be real here. This isn't about sales. The new Iron Fist isn't going to sell any better than the old one. I mean I don't have a problem with them changing the dude, but it isn't about sales. Its a mini series. It will do ok.

It's about sales in the way they think the representation will get people to buy the book.It's funny because the twitter mob they are catering too pirate books or don't even read them, so why they think they need to do this is beyond movie.

[danielsan52]

I hope Danny evolves into an all new character.

[CrimsonEchidna]

I'd say it's a combination of things.

The pushback against the Netflix series. Much as comic-book fans despise admitting it, representation matters and Danny's character has always been intertwined with appropriation. Not everything, as well-intentioned as writers try to make it, is going to translate outside of comics. And Jeph Loeb's total tone-deaf response to criticisms combined with the Netflix show getting panned is going to make Danny a hard sell going forward.

Iron Fist in general has just hasn't been reliable sales wise. People like to point to sales figures when it's convenient for them. Marvel has launched a solo for Danny how many times now these past 15 or so years and they really haven't been able to sustain.

[Kurolegacy]

I'd say it's a combination of things.

The pushback against the Netflix series. Much as comic-book fans despise admitting it, representation matters and Danny's character has always been intertwined with appropriation. Not everything, as well-intentioned as writers try to make it, is going to translate outside of comics. And Jeph Loeb's total tone-deaf response to criticisms combined with the Netflix show getting panned is going to make Danny a hard sell going forward.

Iron Fist in general has just hasn't been reliable sales wise. People like to point to sales figures when it's convenient for them. Marvel has launched a solo for Danny how many times now these past 15 or so years and they really haven't been able to sustain.

What makes the argument of sales kinda moot is when you look at some of Marvel’s past patters with something they’re trying to push. Like, how many times did they relaunch Carol’s Captain Marvel series when they were trying to make her happen only for sales numbers to dip? It’s only at her current book that things stabilized. So if Marvel’s trying to push something, come He’ll or high water, they’ll push it.

[Xheight]

I thought the whole point of the Iron Fist was for there always to be a line of succession -- meaning Rand wasn't the first Iron Fist, nor will he be the last. Is that not the case?

Honestly, after watching the Shang Chi & the 10 rings movie, I honestly thought Marvel missed an opportunity. They should have made Shang Chi the Iron Fist of the MCU. I wasn't a fan of the Mandarin replacing Fu Manchu as Shang's father. But if they were going to do that, they might as well let the Great Protector dragon be a guise of Shou-Lao the Undying and give Shang and/or his sister (speaking of which, what happened to M'Nai, Shang's brother???) the powers of the IF. But whatever.

Have followed the character for years from and loved that they developed that succession thing so if there have been asians in the past now can make sense too provided they kill off Danny. Didn't see the movie so I can't comment but the Comic Shang Chi seemed limited in comparison over the years to IF. Bring back Fu Manchu and they might have something but that is a copyright thing and hence the Yellow Claw/Mandarin thing.

[Xheight]

What makes the argument of sales kinda moot is when you look at some of Marvel’s past patters with something they’re trying to push. Like, how many times did they relaunch Carol’s Captain Marvel series when they were trying to make her happen only for sales numbers to dip? It’s only at her current book that things stabilized. So if Marvel’s trying to push something, come He’ll or high water, they’ll push it.

Sadly the monthlies publishing pattern has become more like the inception of comics with pushing something NEW out the door every few months and hoping it catches fire long enough to profit before dropping it. Changing up characters is only one more marketing flourish to this pattern.

[Redjack]

I'd say it's a combination of things.

The pushback against the Netflix series.

Nope. it's that no one watched the series. The "pushback" is nothing. LUKE CAGE overloaded Netflix's servers. JESSICA DREW, DAREDEVIL and PUNISHER were clear successes. Like INHUMANS, no one watched IRON FIST. The end. Internet chatter had nothing to do with it.

[JudicatorPrime]

Have followed the character for years from and loved that they developed that succession thing so if there have been asians in the past now can make sense too provided they kill off Danny. Didn't see the movie so I can't comment but the Comic Shang Chi seemed limited in comparison over the years to IF. Bring back Fu Manchu and they might have something but that is a copyright thing and hence the Yellow Claw/Mandarin thing.

Yeah, I figured there was a logical reason why they didn't use Fu Manchu in Shang's origin. Still, adding the Mandarin was forced. I won't ruin the movie for you, but there is a rather clumsy attempt at retconning the Mandarin MCU story that was probably meant to be comedic, but felt mostly awkward and a bit ridiculous to me.

As for the 10 Rings movie itself, well, let's just say it's no Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. There will be a second movie. I wouldn't rush to go see the first one any time soon, if you're the type that likes to binge watch movies.

[inisideguy]

Yeah, I figured there was a logical reason why they didn't use Fu Manchu in Shang's origin. Still, adding the Mandarin was forced. I won't ruin the movie for you, but there is a rather clumsy attempt at retconning the Mandarin MCU story that was probably meant to be comedic, but felt mostly awkward and a bit ridiculous to me.

As for the 10 Rings movie itself, well, let's just say it's no Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. There will be a second movie. I wouldn't rush to go see the first one any time soon, if you're the type that likes to binge watch movies.

My problem with the Mandarin story is one which crops up a lot in movies like this. Not just Marvel ones. They show that character was a mass killer. Not just a few people. But like a guy who killed god knows how many for power. Then he finds women and they attempt to make him a sympathetic figure. That doesnt work in my head. Im sorry. If Hitler finds Jesus in 1944 I'm not going to be like well hes changed. A lot of these villains they keep whitewashing to make them like well he just had a different point of view at one time. Thats not how things work.

[JudicatorPrime]

Nope. it's that no one watched the series. The "pushback" is nothing. LUKE CAGE overloaded Netflix's servers. JESSICA DREW, DAREDEVIL and PUNISHER were clear successes. Like INHUMANS, no one watched IRON FIST. The end. Internet chatter had nothing to do with it.

In fairness, some of the complaints about the IF Netflix series also centered on the choice of actor chosen to play Danny. I remember watching it with friends and family who aren't really into comics at all, and the first thing that my sister-in-law said was, "This guy is a terrible actor." Ouch. And my sister-in-law rarely complains about anything.

[JudicatorPrime]

My problem with the Mandarin story is one which crops up a lot in movies like this. Not just Marvel ones. They show that character was a mass killer. Not just a few people. But like a guy who killed god knows how many for power. Then he finds women and they attempt to make him a sympathetic figure. That doesnt work in my head. Im sorry. If Hitler finds Jesus in 1944 I'm not going to be like well hes changed. A lot of these villains they keep whitewashing to make them like well he just had a different point of view at one time. Thats not how things work.

We probably should resume this discussion in the MCU or Shang's Appreciation thread, but I agree. Especially, since the Mandarin had been alive for centuries and I'm sure met and fell in love with a number of women in that span of time who could have changed him while he was committing atrocities, and setting up a global organization that promotes his violent and criminal legacy. Seeing the human side of criminals shouldn't make anyone feel sympathetic about them. If anything, it should make people hold them even more accountable for their heinous actions. But the cliche sells, so writers will keep making sympathetic villains and readers will keep supporting them.
.

[numberthirty]

I hope Danny evolves into an all new character.

Honestly, the possibility that Danny could wind up in a role something like the one Orson played in his could be a worthwhile angle.

[king of hybrids]

Honestly, the possibility that Danny could wind up in a role something like the one Orson played in his could be a worthwhile angle.

which again raises the question of why Pei isn't the new IF

Nope. it's that no one watched the series. The "pushback" is nothing. LUKE CAGE overloaded Netflix's servers. JESSICA DREW, DAREDEVIL and PUNISHER were clear successes. Like INHUMANS, no one watched IRON FIST. The end. Internet chatter had nothing to do with it.

considering Marvel promptly had the Inhumans wiped out once they flopped, Danny getting sswapped out is a fairly lenient outcome by comparison.

But the actor in that show was awful. considering she had to do all the heavy lifting they might as well have cast Henwick as a gender-bent Danny