MLB 2021-2022 Offseason Hot Stove

[MRP]

Regarding the strike, it's ridiculous. These players make millions of dollars a year. 500 players out of 300 million US population make it to the MLB. Which means it's really small. Bryce Harper is currently under a $400 million dollar contract. Why would these players need to strike when they make so much already? Selfish idiots.

First, it's not a strike, it's a lockout and there is a world of difference between the two especially in how federal labor laws can be applied. As for the players, it's not the guys at the top, it's the rank and file who are the ones looking for more. The earning window for a typical player is only 10-15 years, and many are getting screwed out of it at the beginning because of owners manipulating service time keeping them in the minors so they do not get paid as much while they are still in their prime. And if the players making millions are selfish idiots, how about owners who make billions? But again, it is not a player strike. It is an owner lockout. The owners have told the players you cannot play until we have a new collective bargaining agreement in place. It doesn't end until the owners end the lockout because the players are not on strike.

I'm not saying there is no blame that should go tot he players, there certainly is, but the owners are just as much to blame for the negotiation impasse and their greed, but the lockout itself is because of the owners, not the players. Neither side was willing to bargain in good faith before the previous CBA expired, and the second it did, the owners licked out the players.

-M


-

[babyblob]

First, it's not a strike, it's a lockout and there is a world of difference between the two especially in how federal labor laws can be applied. As for the players, it's not the guys at the top, it's the rank and file who are the ones looking for more. The earning window for a typical player is only 10-15 years, and many are getting screwed out of it at the beginning because of owners manipulating service time keeping them in the minors so they do not get paid as much while they are still in their prime. And if the players making millions are selfish idiots, how about owners who make billions? But again, it is not a player strike. It is an owner lockout. The owners have told the players you cannot play until we have a new collective bargaining agreement in place. It doesn't end until the owners end the lockout because the players are not on strike.

I'm not saying there is no blame that should go tot he players, there certainly is, but the owners are just as much to blame for the negotiation impasse and their greed, but the lockout itself is because of the owners, not the players. Neither side was willing to bargain in good faith before the previous CBA expired, and the second it did, the owners licked out the players.

-M


-

There is a lot of blame to go around. On both sides. But to be honest the public doesnt care who is at fault. All they see is the super rich fighting the super rich over money. They dont see what the little guy in the MLB makes a year which is still more then the average person will make in 3 or 4 years.

They see rising costs on everything, medication, gas, food, rent, etc... So a lock out (and most people dont care if it is a lock out or a strike even if they could tell the difference) is leaving a bad taste in people's mouths at a time when the sport was already hurting. The longer this goes on the shorter time baseball will be around in the long run. Look how long it took to recover from the strike in the 90s and it never really did for some teams.

So both sides right now are hurting themselves and shooting themselves in the foot by not working this work. Hardcore fans will stick around sure. But the sometimes and casual fans that make up a lot of the ball park seats? They will not come back or not come to games near as often. Hell im a hardcore fan, been watching my whole freaken life. And I dont listen much to the baseball news right now because all it does is anger me. Even more so when I pay my bills and I am shelling out close to 150 bucks more a month for the same services and same food.

[MRP]

There is a lot of blame to go around. On both sides. But to be honest the public doesnt care who is at fault. All they see is the super rich fighting the super rich over money. They dont see what the little guy in the MLB makes a year which is still more then the average person will make in 3 or 4 years.

They see rising costs on everything, medication, gas, food, rent, etc... So a lock out (and most people dont care if it is a lock out or a strike even if they could tell the difference) is leaving a bad taste in people's mouths at a time when the sport was already hurting. The longer this goes on the shorter time baseball will be around in the long run. Look how long it took to recover from the strike in the 90s and it never really did for some teams.

So both sides right now are hurting themselves and shooting themselves in the foot by not working this work. Hardcore fans will stick around sure. But the sometimes and casual fans that make up a lot of the ball park seats? They will not come back or not come to games near as often.

The major difference between a strike and a lockout is this-the players cannot play during a lockout even if they wanted to. If the MLBPA said, hey we don't have a CBA but let's play the season so we don't interrupt the game for the fans, they still couldn't play. They are not allowed to play by the owners.

With a strike-it's the players who refuse to play. The owners could still have a season, they would just have to get non-union workers (i.e. players not on the 40 man rosters of each team) to play the games.

While it may not make a difference to the fan, I can tell you from experience when the NFL had replacement games while the players were on strike (in the late 80s/early 90s my memory for the exact date is faded), fans rebelled and were unhappy. They didn't care about the games because they felt they were fake games, so I am skeptical of fans who say we just want games and don't care about the rest, because when it happened the fans themselves proved that a lie by their actions (which always reveal more truth than words).

Yes it's millionaires vs. billionaires and folks who get paid a lot less say it's ridiculous and don't care, but then they also don't care about people who are making a lot less than them either when labor disputes happen in other industries, they only care about their own perceived inconvenience, and I find I don't really care about their opinion because it comes from selfishness their own unrealistic expectations of the world, and not from anything resembling reality or a sense of fairness.

-M

[babyblob]

The major difference between a strike and a lockout is this-the players cannot play during a lockout even if they wanted to. If the MLBPA said, hey we don't have a CBA but let's play the season so we don't interrupt the game for the fans, they still couldn't play. They are not allowed to play by the owners.

With a strike-it's the players who refuse to play. The owners could still have a season, they would just have to get non-union workers (i.e. players not on the 40 man rosters of each team) to play the games.

While it may not make a difference to the fan, I can tell you from experience when the NFL had replacement games while the players were on strike (in the late 80s/early 90s my memory for the exact date is faded), fans rebelled and were unhappy. They didn't care about the games because they felt they were fake games, so I am skeptical of fans who say we just want games and don't care about the rest, because when it happened the fans themselves proved that a lie by their actions (which always reveal more truth than words).

Yes it's millionaires vs. billionaires and folks who get paid a lot less say it's ridiculous and don't care, but then they also don't care about people who are making a lot less than them either when labor disputes happen in other industries, they only care about their own perceived inconvenience, and I find I don't really care about their opinion because it comes from selfishness their own unrealistic expectations of the world, and not from anything resembling reality or a sense of fairness.

-M

I get what you are saying. Good points.

But to the average fan the fans getting mad not the hard core one who are going to come back anyway. But to the people who are most vocal about being pissed off by this and who may not return.

I get you dont care about their opinion and dont care waht they think, but if they do not buy tickets and come back to the game that will hurt baseball over all because the casual fan and average fan makes up the biggest ticket sales. Not the Hardcore fan. And I have heard rumblings from season ticket hodlers not coming back. The Reds have already had season ticket holders drop out and not rebuy. Will they change their minds When baseball comes back? Who knows? Maybe.

But the point is even if you dont care about what they have to say the actions of buying tickets counts more for what then what they say. And if tikcet sales have a sharp decline like more then a few of the talking heads are saying? Going to be harder to keep playing in the long term. You may not care if the average fan knows the difference between a strike and a lock out like we do. Im worried how their feelings will reflect ticket sales and attendance. Which will hurt the over all bottom line and longevity of the game.

[TheRay]

The Angels pitching staff is severely underrated.

[MRP]

I get what you are saying. Good points.

But to the average fan the fans getting mad not the hard core one who are going to come back anyway. But to the people who are most vocal about being pissed off by this and who may not return.

I get you dont care about their opinion and dont care waht they think, but if they do not buy tickets and come back to the game that will hurt baseball over all because the casual fan and average fan makes up the biggest ticket sales. Not the Hardcore fan. And I have heard rumblings from season ticket hodlers not coming back. The Reds have already had season ticket holders drop out and not rebuy. Will they change their minds When baseball comes back? Who knows? Maybe.

But the point is even if you dont care about what they have to say the actions of buying tickets counts more for what then what they say. And if tikcet sales have a sharp decline like more then a few of the talking heads are saying? Going to be harder to keep playing in the long term. You may not care if the average fan knows the difference between a strike and a lock out like we do. Im worried how their feelings will reflect ticket sales and attendance. Which will hurt the over all bottom line and longevity of the game.

they grumble, then when the season comes back they get FOMO and reup for tix anyways. Again, every time there is a labor issue, fans talk about being done. And yes, there is an initial downturn when things come back initially, but then FOMO sets in and people come back or younger newer fans who don't care about the previous work stoppage step in and take up those season ticket packages and game day tix. Unless you are in one of the markets that just cannot support a team in the best of times (Tampa Bay I'm looking at you), the loss of ticket sales will be a temporary bump in the road more than offset by increasing television revenue and online sales or merch. Past precedent shows that talk of jumping ship because of work stoppages is just that in the long run. Talk. Empty words that when the time comes do not indicate how they actually behave. There's a short period of sulking by the fans where ticket sales are slower, but in the long term they come back or are replaced by new fans. In the end, the bandwagon nature of fans and their FOMO wins out over their sulking tantrum behavior that is on display during and shortly after the work stoppages.

It's the same kind of mentality in comic fandom, where comic fans complain all the time about events and #1 issues, yet continue to buy them in numbers greater than non-event comics and non-#1s because as much as they complain, they're more afraid they might miss something if they don't buy it. FOMO is greater than sulking in fandom, no matter what the fandom is focused on.

If I turn out to be wrong this time, so be it, but then the behavior of fans THIS TIME will have to be completely different than every other time there has been a work stoppage in a sport in the long term.

-M

[Deathstroke]

Ryan Zimmerman, who spent his entire career in the Washington Nationals organization, has announced his retirement.

[MRP]

MLB officially delayed the start of Spring Training until March 5.

Both sides met to discuss the core economic issues yesterday (Thursday). The meeting lasted for 15 minutes before both sides decided no progress would be made. They're supposed to meet multiple times next week, but neither side seems inclined to budge in the slightest on any of the key economic issues at the core of the negotiation, so unless something changes, there won't be any movement in those meetings and we are looking at a loooong time before we see any baseball.

-M

[achilles]

MLB officially delayed the start of Spring Training until March 5.

Both sides met to discuss the core economic issues yesterday (Thursday). The meeting lasted for 15 minutes before both sides decided no progress would be made. There supposed to meet multiple times next week, but neither side seems inclined to budge in the slightest on any of the key economic issues at the core of the negotiation, so unless something changes, there won't be any movement in those meetings and we are looking at a loooong time before we see any baseball.

-M

Anyone care to lay odds on the season itself being scrapped, in whole or part? That's the way it's looking to me. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the season just doesn't happen at all.

[MRP]

Anyone care to lay odds on the season itself being scrapped, in whole or part? That's the way it's looking to me. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the season just doesn't happen at all.

I think next week will be the tell. If they meet several times (they say it could be every day) and no progress at all has been made on the key issues, then I don't think we're going to see baseball for a while. If they can manage to make headway on at least one key issue, then we might get baseball sooner rather than later, but I am skeptical the season starts on time. I think realistically May is the best we can hope for, but I would love to be wrong and we only miss a week or two because of delayed spring training.


-M

[cable guy]

Anyone care to lay odds on the season itself being scrapped, in whole or part? That's the way it's looking to me. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the season just doesn't happen at all.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is no season.

This is what I'm worried about and it's just terrible.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Just watch we lose the whole season and both sides blame each other and try to portray themselves as the biggest victim of all of this...

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Just watch we lose the whole season and both sides blame each other and try to portray themselves as the biggest victim of all of this...

The only victims will be the fans.

[achilles]

The only victims will be the fans.

Well yeah, I was kind of counting on my favorite pro sport filling those BBQ summer weekends this year.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

The only victims will be the fans.

True, though like I said both sides will try to portray themselves as the victims, the defenders of the fans and such...